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Author Topic:   How is the Universe here?
Percy
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Posts: 18842
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 91 of 131 (488426)
11-11-2008 9:12 AM
Reply to: Message 83 by cavediver
11-09-2008 6:51 AM


Re: Back again, and let's first dispense with this nonsense...
Hi Cavediver,

I have a question that I'm not sure is in the direction you're going, so please feel free to ignore this.

My understanding of electrostatic forces, the same ones you mentioned that make clapping one's hands possible, is that they're transmitted by exchanges of photons. Is that correct? If so, what is it about the exchange of photons that creates a force on the electrons that exchange them (and through them, of course, on the atoms to which they're to various degrees affixed and on up the hierarchy of scale to our hands)?

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by cavediver, posted 11-09-2008 6:51 AM cavediver has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by cavediver, posted 11-12-2008 9:04 AM Percy has not yet responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18842
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 102 of 131 (491169)
12-12-2008 10:36 AM
Reply to: Message 100 by Agobot
12-12-2008 7:11 AM


Re: Back again, and let's first dispense with this nonsense...
Agobot writes:

Just wanted to add something cavediver didn't mention - matter is 99.9999% empty space and the other 0.0001% is... virtual.

That's not what the article you cited says.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by Agobot, posted 12-12-2008 7:11 AM Agobot has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by Agobot, posted 12-12-2008 12:25 PM Percy has responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18842
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 105 of 131 (491198)
12-12-2008 1:30 PM
Reply to: Message 103 by Agobot
12-12-2008 12:25 PM


Re: Back again, and let's first dispense with this nonsense...
Agobot writes:

What does it say?

It says you need to read more carefully. Or, if you actually realize it didn't say anything to the effect that "matter is 99.9999% empty space and the other 0.0001% is... virtual," then it says you have to stop making stuff up.

As Cavediver said, it says nothing new. It is a more accurate validation of already accepted theory. That's not to say it isn't a stunning analytical accomplishment, because it most certain is.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by Agobot, posted 12-12-2008 12:25 PM Agobot has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 106 by Agobot, posted 12-12-2008 2:14 PM Percy has responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18842
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 107 of 131 (491208)
12-12-2008 2:40 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by Agobot
12-12-2008 2:14 PM


Re: Back again, and let's first dispense with this nonsense...
Agobot writes:

ut it did say that almost the entire mass of those 0.0001% comes from virtual particles that pop into "existence" for a very brief period of time from the vacuum of space.

Are we talking about the same article? It's confirmed: Matter is merely vacuum fluctuations?

If so, please quote the sentence or two where you think it says this.

You seem to have a classical picture of the quantum world which is wrong.

I haven't said anything about any picture of the quantum world, so you couldn't possibly know what picture I have.

All I said was that you claimed the article says something which it does not. I did not agree or disagree with you because I couldn't figure out what your point was because YOUR CLAIM ABOUT WHAT THE ARTICLE SAID WAS FALSE.

Pardon the shouting, but we're going around and around on what is a very basic point. Please just reread the article and you'll see that it did not say what you claimed it said.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Agobot, posted 12-12-2008 2:14 PM Agobot has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 108 by Agobot, posted 12-12-2008 2:51 PM Percy has responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18842
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 111 of 131 (491218)
12-12-2008 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by Agobot
12-12-2008 2:51 PM


Re: Back again, and let's first dispense with this nonsense...
You still don't seem to realize that when you said this:

Agobot in Message 100 writes:

ust wanted to add something cavediver didn't mention - matter is 99.9999% empty space and the other 0.0001% is... virtual.

That this is not anywhere close to what the article said. The article definitely does not say that 0.0001% of the atom is virtual. It says that the entire nucleus of the atom is virtual. It says it in the title:

It's confirmed: Matter is merely vacuum fluctuations

And it says it again in the opening paragraph:

Matter is built on flaky foundations. Physicists have now confirmed that the apparently substantial stuff is actually no more than fluctuations in the quantum vacuum.

Do you get it now? The article did not say that 0.0001% of the atom is virtual. It said that the entire nucleus (the majority of the mass of an atom) is virtual.

Just as theory predicts.

Electrons are theorized to be virtual, too, but this experimental work didn't focus on elections.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by Agobot, posted 12-12-2008 2:51 PM Agobot has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by Agobot, posted 12-12-2008 3:31 PM Percy has responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18842
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 113 of 131 (491272)
12-13-2008 10:40 AM
Reply to: Message 112 by Agobot
12-12-2008 3:31 PM


Re: Back again, and let's first dispense with this nonsense...
Ah, okay, I see connection now. But this point is something you were arguing in the Uncovering a Simulation thread. I don't think your "matter is mostly empty space" argument makes sense here, or at least the tie-in isn't apparent to me.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by Agobot, posted 12-12-2008 3:31 PM Agobot has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by Agobot, posted 12-13-2008 10:52 AM Percy has not yet responded

    
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