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Author | Topic: Evolution is Not Science | ||||||||||||||||||||
Quetzal Member (Idle past 5902 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
quote: Careful Cobra, your assertion here could be taken the wrong way. Care to respond to my critique of your most recent post on the (now-defunct) "Why Creationism isn't Science" thread? I'll be happy to open a new thread to continue that discussion. Unless, of course, you'd simply care to concede the debate?
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Quetzal Member (Idle past 5902 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
Hi TC:
quote: How? All we see in the early Cambrian is a relatively rapid radiation of basic body plans and a number of soft-bodied forms that no longer exist (Hallucinogenia comes to mind). As far as "sudden" creation goes, that only works if you consider 10 (or 30, depending on who you ask) million years "sudden". Also, creationism doesn't explain the Vendian fossils - many of which represent early forms of the body plans so explicit in the Cambrian. Sounds to me like the Cambrian represents additional data that is utterly inconsistent with creationism... After all, there are a number of other periods that show the same, relatively rapid radiation (such as the Triassic and Paleocene - both of which could be equally called "explosions", except they didn't have a publicist like SJ Gould).
quote: Uhh, lobsters are crustaceans. And there are a number of phyla that didn't appear in the Cambrian (terrestrial plants, for one). You'll be hard pressed to convince anyone that the change from a lancelet-type critter to chimpanzee represents "variation in a kind" (chordate "kind"?). Again, the Cambrian doesn't support creationism.
quote: Hunh? This doesn't make any sense, TC. Please clarify what you are talking about.
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Quetzal Member (Idle past 5902 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
quote: The following references should answer both points. You wanted scientific data — in the raw — here it is. Please note that these are only a few selected papers out of thousands on this issue. Happy reading. Ahlberg, P.E. 1991. Tetrapod or near-tetrapod fossils from the UpperDevonian of Scotland. Nature 354:298-301. Barnosky, A.D. 1987. Punctuated equilibrium and phyletic gradualism:some facts from the Quaternary mammalian record. Chapter 4, pp 109- 148, in: Current Mammalogy, volume 1, ed. H.H. Genowys. Plenum Press, New York. Berta, A. 1994. What is a whale? Science 263:180-181. [commentary ondiscovery of Ambulocetus natans] Bolt, J.R., R.M. McKay, B.J. Witzke, & M.P. Adams. 1988. A new LowerCarboniferous tetrapod locality in Iowa. Nature 333:768-770 Chaline, J., and B. Laurin. 1986. Phyletic gradualism in a EuropeanPlio-Pleistocene Mimomys lineage (Arvicolidae, Rodentia). Paleobiology 12:203-216. Chevret, P., C. Denys, J.J. Jaeger, J. Michaux, and F. Catzeflis. 1993.Molecular and paleontological aspects of the tempo and mode of evolution in Otomys (Otomyinae: Muridae: Mammalia). Biochem. Syst. Ecol. 21(1):123-131. Coates, M.I., & J.A. Clack. 1991. Fish-like gills and breathing in theearliest known tetrapod. Nature 352:234-236. Coates, M.I., & J.A. Clack. 1990. Polydactyly in the earliest knowntetrapod limbs. Nature 347:66-69. Daeschler, E.B., N.H. Shubin, K.S. Thomson, W.W. Amaral. 1994. ADevonian tetrapod from North America. Science 265:639-642. Edwards, J.L. 1989. Two perspectives on the evolution of the tetrapodlimb. Am. Zool. 29:235-254. Fischman, J. 1993. Paleontologists examine old bones and newinterpretations. Science 262: 845-846. Gingerich, P.D. 1976. Paleontology and phylogeny: Patterns ofevolution at the species level in early Tertiary mammals. Am. J. Sci. 276:1-28. Gingerich, P.D. 1980. Evolutionary patterns in early Cenozoic mammals.Ann. Rev. Earth Planet. Sci. 8:407-424. Gingerich, P.D. 1982. Time resolution in mammalian evolution:Sampling, lineages, and faunal turnover. Third North Am. Paleont. Conv., Proc., 1:205-210. Gingerich, P.D. 1983. Evidence for evolution from the vertebratefossil record. J. Geological Education 31:140-144. Gingerich, P.D. 1985. Species in the fossil record: concepts, trends,and transitions. Paleobiology 11(1):27-41. Gingerich, P.D., B.H. Smith, & E.L. Simons. 1990. Hind limb of EoceneBasilosaurus: evidence of feet in whales. Science 249:154-156. Harris, J., & White, T.D. 1979. Evolution of Plio-Pleistocene AfricanSuidae. Trans. Am. Phil. Soc. 69:1-128. Hopson, J.A. 1991. Convergence in mammals, tritheledonts, andtridylodonts. J. Vert. Paleont. 11(suppl. to 3):36A [abstract] Horner, J.R., D.J. Varrichio, and M.B. Goodwin. 1992. Marinetransgressions and the evolution of Cretaceous dinosaurs. Nature 358:59-61. Krishtalka, L., and Stucky, R.K. 1985. Revision of the Wind RiverFaunas. Early Eocene of Central Wyoming. Part 7. Revision of Diacodexis (Mammalia, Artiodactyla). Am. Carnegie Mus. 54:413-486. Kurten, B. 1964. The evolution of the polar bear, Ursus maritimus(Phipps). Acta Zoologica Fennica 108:1-26. Laurin, M. 1991. The osteology of a Lower Permian eosuchian from Texasand a review of diapsid phylogeny. Zool. J. Linn. Soc. 101:59-95. Lee, M.S.Y. 1993. The origin of the turtle bodyplan: bridging a famousmorphological gap. Science 261:1716-1720. Lucas, S.G., and Z. Lou. 1993. Adelobasileus from the upper Triassicof west Texas: the oldest mammal. J. Vert. Paleont. 13(3):309-334. MacFadden, B.J. 1985. Patterns of phylogeny and rates of evolution infossil horses: Hipparions from the Miocene and Pliocene of North America. Paleobiology 11:245-257. MacFadden, B.J. 1988. Horses, the fossil record, and evolution: acurrent perspective. Evol. Biol. 22:131-158. MacFadden, B.J., & R.C. Hubbert. 1988. Explosive speciation at thebase of the adaptive radiation of Miocene grazing horses. Nature 336:466-468. MacFadden, B.J., J.D. Bryant, and P.A. Mueller. 1991. Sr-isotopic,paleomagnetic, and biostratigraphic evidence of horse evolution: evidence from the Miocene of Florida. Geology 19:242-245 Maglio, V.J. 1973. Origin and evolution of the Elephantidae. Trans.Am. Phil. Soc., New Ser. 63:1-149. Milner, A.R., and S.E. Evans. 1991. The Upper Jurassic diapsidLisboasaurus estesi -- a maniraptoran theropod. Paleontology 34:503-513. Reisz, R., & Laurin, M. 1991. Owenetta and the origin of the turtles.Nature 349: 324-326. Reisz, R., & Laurin, M. 1993. The origin of turtles. J. Vert.Paleont. 13 (suppl. 3):46 Rensberger, J.M. 1981. Evolution in a late Oligocene-early Miocenesuccession of meniscomyine rodents in the Deep River Formation, Montana. J. Vert. Paleont. 1(2): 185-209. Rose, K.D., and Bown, T.M. 1984. Gradual phyletic evolution at thegeneric level in early Eocene omomyid primates. Nature 309:250-252. Rowe, T. 1988. Definition, diagnosis, and origin of Mammalia. J.Vert. Paleont. 8(3): 241-264. Rougier, G.W., J.R. Wible, and J.A. Hopson. 1992. Reconstruction ofthe cranial vessels in the early Cretaceous mammal Vincelestes neuquenianus: implications for the evolution of the mammalian cranial vascular system. J. Vert. Paleont. 12(2):188-216. Sanz, J.L., Bonaparte, J.F., and A. Lacassa. 1988. Unusual EarlyCretaceous birds from Spain. Nature 331:433-435 Sanz, J.L and Bonaparte, J.F. 1992. A new order of birds (Class Aves)from the lower Cretaceous of Spain. in K.E.Campbell (ed.) Papers in Avian Paleontology. Natural History Museum of Los Angeles County, Science Series No.36 Sereno, P.C. and Rao, C. 1992. Early evolution of avian flight andperching: new evidence from the lower Cretaceous of China. Science vol.255, pp.845-848. Shubin, N.H., A.W. Crompton, H.-D. Sues, P.E. Olsen. 1991. New fossilevidence on the sister-group of mammals and early Mesozoic faunal distribution. Science 251:1063-1065. Thewissen, J.G.M., S.T. Hussain, and M. Arif. 1993. Fossil evidencefor the origin of aquatic locomotion in archaeocete whales. Science 263:210-212. White, T.D., G. Suwa, and B. Asfaq. 1994. Australopithecus ramidus, anew species of early hominid from Aramis, Ethiopida. Nature 371:306- 312. Wible, J.R. 1991. Origin of Mammalia: the craniodental evidencereexamined. J. Vert. Paleont. 11(1):1-28. Wood, B.A. 1994. The oldest hominid yet. Nature 371:280-281. Oh, yeah. I forgot. Jet finds my posts "utterly worthless". Sorry Jet, just ignore this. ***OK, open one of those books that you mentioned, check the back of the book for the reference sources of the material provided within, and supply me with that reference material. I will then use that information on my next trip to the library. OK?***[/QUOTE] I guess this answers your request, no? [This message has been edited by Quetzal, 06-17-2002]
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