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Author Topic:   Induction and Science
ohnhai
Member (Idle past 5191 days)
Posts: 649
From: Melbourne, Australia
Joined: 11-17-2004


Message 37 of 744 (284105)
02-05-2006 8:50 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by nwr
02-04-2006 2:36 PM


  • Yesterday, I bumped into Betty Crowe. She was wearing black shoes.
  • Two weeks ago, I was introduced to John Crowe. I happened to notice that he was wearing black shoes.
  • Bob Crowe was one of my high school friends. As I recall, he wore black shoes.
    All the Crowes I have observed have been wearing black shoes. Therefore all Crowes are wearing black shoes.
  • This doesn’t work as you think it does. Your statements only refer to the history of those peoples shoe wearing habits and not their current, actual footwear status.
    Your conclusion that “ . all Crowes are wearing black shoes.” cannot be gleaned from your statements as it specifies a current state of footwear when all the evidence you supplied deals only with past states of footwear.
    It would be more accurate if you conclude, “Therefore all Crowes are likely to have worn black shoes.”
    The more Crowes you observe wearing black shoes then the stronger this conclusion becomes.
    The above is an example of the "reasoning" principle known as inductive logic. It is absurd. Nobody would jump to the conclusion that all Crowes are wearing black shoes. There is nothing logical about so-called inductive logic.
    Yes, as you wrote it is absurd because you can’t make that conclusion from those facts. There is no logic in your example because it’s erroneous in its conclusion. So is concluding the invalidity of inductive-logic when you hold up a flawed example.
    This message has been edited by ohnhai, 06-02-2006 12:02 AM

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 1 by nwr, posted 02-04-2006 2:36 PM nwr has seen this message but not replied

      
    ohnhai
    Member (Idle past 5191 days)
    Posts: 649
    From: Melbourne, Australia
    Joined: 11-17-2004


    Message 61 of 744 (284550)
    02-07-2006 8:35 AM
    Reply to: Message 48 by nwr
    02-05-2006 4:09 PM


    All Boeing 737 passenger aircraft have arrived safely at their destination. By induction, all such aircraft will arrive safely. Oops, one of them crashed, so the induction has failed. Send in the NTSB (National Transportation Safety Board) to investigate.
    Sure, Inductive reasoning often will fail to give the answer you finally submit as ”the truth’. It’s a tool to allow you to ”guess’ the ball park based on a limited set of data. “hmm, the data we have leads me to think that X will be what’s happening. Lets test that . .”
    In your example of the Crowe’s and their shoes, it would be reasonable to expect some coloration between Crowe’s and black shoes, as all the Crowe’s you have observed have indeed been wearing black shoes. That gives you a ”valid’ starting point to expand the data further. If in later investigations you learn that it was those three and only those three who have ever worn black shoes then, even though the inductive reasoning was wrong, you have indeed learned a very curious and interesting ”fact’.
    To pick holes because inductive reasoning can and does fail to deliver solid, well supported ”facts’ on the first swing of the bat, just goes to show a lack of understanding of what it is and how it is used.
    And in the 737 example I would replace the word ”will’ with ”should’, but that’s nitt picking. The fact is one 737 crash doesn’t invalidate the value initial conclusion. After many, many, many thousand successful landings leading to the conclusion that they shouldn’t crash, a crash will lead to a very specific question. “Why?”. If the result of that question is that “the hydraulic hoses on the primary flight controls can perish if repeatedly exposed to certain conditions” then you modify the inductive reasoning conclusion. I,e, “as long as the hoses on the primary flight controls have not perished then all 737s will arrive safely”, and you add regular checks of said hose to the maintenance schedule to make sure they don’t perish. Next time a 737 crashes (inductive reasoning doesn’t exclude the possibility) you repeat the process, and so the list of caveats grows. But with aviation, by the time we get to the 737 we have found a vast number of things that will cause an aircraft to crash, and because of that we check for them. Because we check for them 737s tend not to fall out of the sky on a regular basis, leading to the inductive conclusion that a 737 should reach its destination safely.
    This message has been edited by ohnhai, 08-02-2006 03:54 PM

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 48 by nwr, posted 02-05-2006 4:09 PM nwr has seen this message but not replied

      
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