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Author
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Topic: Faith Science - Logically Indefensible
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jar
Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 14 of 166 (353329)
09-30-2006 6:31 PM
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Reply to: Message 13 by Straggler
09-30-2006 6:24 PM
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The other big thing is that Science holds every conclusion as tentative. Creation Science is only possible when the Creation Scientists hold God tentatively.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 13 by Straggler, posted 09-30-2006 6:24 PM | | Straggler has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 17 of 166 (353340)
09-30-2006 8:24 PM
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Reply to: Message 15 by Straggler
09-30-2006 7:31 PM
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You cannot have tentative faith!!! Of course you can. The only honest Faith would be tentative. Any Absolute Faith though is almost guaranteed to be false. I believe that GOD exists and is the author of the universe, but I also know that I may be wrong.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 15 by Straggler, posted 09-30-2006 7:31 PM | | Straggler has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 62 of 166 (353925)
10-03-2006 2:26 PM
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Reply to: Message 61 by Faith
10-03-2006 2:04 PM
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It wasn't clear that the fossils were evidence for the flood for instance. It still isn't. Until you can present a model that explains ALL of the fossil sorting, (something you have admitted in the past you cannot do) it is not evidence for the flood but rather evidence that refutes the myth.
Some were looking for a single layer of sediment as evidence of the flood, and so are some still, rather than the entire geologic column which is far better evidence. You keep asserting this but until you present a model that can explain what is seen, it is just more bull. When you present the model that explains what is seen I am sure that we will be interested, but right now you have NEVER presented such a model.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 61 by Faith, posted 10-03-2006 2:04 PM | | Faith has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 68 of 166 (354015)
10-03-2006 8:12 PM
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Reply to: Message 67 by Faith
10-03-2006 7:53 PM
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Biblical creationists start from a few facts in the Bible. Simply not true. There are no FACTS in the Bible. There are assertions, tales, stories, words, but no FACTS. You may belive something is historical, but the Bible story is no more a FACT than a similar tale from any other book unless there is some external evidence that supports it.
All I am doing here is challenging the OP's statement that our method of reasoning is by definition not science. It is NOT science. Until you are willing to hold the Garden of Eden, Biblical Creation, the Flood and all the other stories in the Bible tentatively, until you are not just will to discard those as explanations but actually eagerly and actively challenging them based on eternal evidence, Creation Science is not only not science, it is dishonest.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 67 by Faith, posted 10-03-2006 7:53 PM | | Faith has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 78 of 166 (354047)
10-03-2006 11:13 PM
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Reply to: Message 76 by iceage
10-03-2006 10:59 PM
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Baraminology.
A good example is in the area of Baraminolgy. They set out some guidelines which can be found here. The very first of these show why Creation Science can NEVER be science and is doomed to failure.
1. Scripture claims (used in baraminology but not in discontinuity systematics). This has priority over all other considerations. For example humans are a separate holobaramin because they separately were created (Genesis 1 and 2). However, even as explained by Wise in his 1990 oral presentation, there is not much relevant taxonomic information in the Bible. Also, ReMine’s discontinuity systematics, because it is a neutral scientific enterprise, does not include the Bible as a source of taxonomic information. That position, one of placing something in an unchallengeable position means that it can NEVER be scientific.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 76 by iceage, posted 10-03-2006 10:59 PM | | iceage has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 80 of 166 (354051)
10-04-2006 12:01 AM
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Reply to: Message 79 by Faith
10-03-2006 11:50 PM
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Re: Religion and Science incompatible
Science would not abandon a position based on a known fact. Sorry, that is false. As new information is found what was thought to be known fact is abandoned all the time in Science.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 79 by Faith, posted 10-03-2006 11:50 PM | | Faith has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 81 by Faith, posted 10-04-2006 12:10 AM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 82 of 166 (354056)
10-04-2006 12:14 AM
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Reply to: Message 81 by Faith
10-04-2006 12:10 AM
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Re: Religion and Science incompatible
Science has no FACTS that are not held tentatively. You have been told that before haven't you?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 81 by Faith, posted 10-04-2006 12:10 AM | | Faith has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 83 by nwr, posted 10-04-2006 12:22 AM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 84 of 166 (354058)
10-04-2006 12:26 AM
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Reply to: Message 83 by nwr
10-04-2006 12:22 AM
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Re: Religion and Science incompatible
Mathematics is an exception. I will grant that.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 83 by nwr, posted 10-04-2006 12:22 AM | | nwr has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 85 by kuresu, posted 10-04-2006 12:31 AM | | jar has not replied | | | Message 86 by nwr, posted 10-04-2006 12:48 AM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 87 of 166 (354063)
10-04-2006 12:56 AM
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Reply to: Message 86 by nwr
10-04-2006 12:48 AM
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Re: Religion and Science incompatible
We just changed both the length of the official meter and the definition of a second. As new information becomes available, science changes. As FACTS are shown to be inaccurate, they change.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 86 by nwr, posted 10-04-2006 12:48 AM | | nwr has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 88 by nwr, posted 10-04-2006 1:12 AM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 89 of 166 (354066)
10-04-2006 1:14 AM
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Reply to: Message 88 by nwr
10-04-2006 1:12 AM
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Re: Religion and Science incompatible
Nah. Let it ride.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 88 by nwr, posted 10-04-2006 1:12 AM | | nwr has seen this message but not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 137 of 166 (362288)
11-06-2006 10:18 PM
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Reply to: Message 135 by foxjoe
11-06-2006 10:02 PM
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Re: Templeton
Most Christians that go to say presperterian, or old methodist churches, are not concerned with atheists. Presbyterian? What does "are not concerned with atheists" mean?
I am not a "Sam Harris" whom has problems with Moderate Christians. They are not interested in thinking about Christianity deeply, just interested in establishing church relationships, singing, dinners, events and social friendships. And you base that on what?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 135 by foxjoe, posted 11-06-2006 10:02 PM | | foxjoe has not replied |
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