Dual Porosity, A Problem For Dating? (for Whatever, etc...)

Loudmouth, It sound like you have some interesting springs, in Paradise, Idaho. They say the granite mantle there is 20 miles thick, but that the Trinity Spring Water is rising up from the granite mantle over 2.2 miles, this is just one of the confirming evidences to the biblical reference to the fountains of the deep, when the waters erupted out from the earth with the sediment that covered the earth, etc...http://www.trinitysprings.com/where.htmP.S. TRINITY was analyzed by Geochron Laboratories using Carbon-14 analysis. Improvements in C-14 dating techniques have been developed in recent years. With the use of these new methods, scientists expect the age of TRINITY to be more than 16,000 years old.We're all told mercury amalgams are safe, but like the earth the body has a small electric current, and we have a small problem with finding excess argon in the earth, it comes out with the off gases in oil wells, were told that elements can not diffuse into the mineral lattices, but we have several things happening, firsts you have water in the sediments (an electrolyte), and you have a weak electrical current, and with the forces of dual porosity solute leaking from high to low concentrations, in a battery the lead will be coated with lead sulfate, the sulfate that comes out of solution, in the body the mercury because the electric current will leach out of the weak amalgam metal cationic bonds, how can we say this is not happening in the mineral lattices, due to the earth's small electric currents.P.S. I believe the sediments would of dated old even before they erupted out from within the earth, and because these sediment would of dated old, by the forces of dual porosity, micropores and macropores solutes over time trying to equalize, and the electric currents causing cations, anions, to preciptate out of solution into the very mineral lattices, making the different dating methods meaningless.Page not foundAmalgam restorations consist of mercury, silver, tin, copper, and a trace amount of zinc. The dental amalgam has two fundamental flaws that adversely effect a patient's health. The first fundamental flaw is that all amalgam metals are cations. The net result of the tendency for covalent, ionic and metallic bonding and van der Waals forces between amalgam cations is a weak repulsion. So there is a sustained release of mercury and other metals from the amalgam into the body. Researchers have measured a daily release of mercury on the order of 10 micrograms from the amalgam into the body. Mercury is a toxic metal; the most minute amount damages cells.The second fundamental flaw is that there are five dissimilar metals in the amalgam. Galvanic action between these metals in inevitable (the dissimilar metals form a battery). Galvanism produces electricity that flows through the body. The electric currents produced by the amalgam typically are between 0.1 and 10 microamps, compared to the body's natural electric current of 3 microamps.The mercury challenges systemic functions of every individual and of developing fetuses, so it can lead to health problems and fetal malformations. Mercury leakage and its subsequent pathophysiologic effects are most often slow, insidious processes. So health problems caused by dental mercury poisoning are perceived many years after the amalgams are placed.http://www.livingcosmos.com/earth.htmHow Batteries Work | HowStuffWorks[This message has been edited by whatever, 01-24-2004]

JonF, With the the cations anions, and the electric current of the earth, couldn't this electric potential within the crystals accelerate the decay rate, by through electron capture, etc...P.S. It seems if remember you explained that the inner earth would have 650 times teh Ar40Ar36 compared to the Atmospheric Ar40Ar36, and that you agreed with Andrew Snelling that excess argon gas is found
in the earth, the reason its one of the off gases of oil wells. The problem appears to be the sediments would of been old even before they erupted out of the earth, so by dual porosity, and electric potentials of the crystals themselves, might be one of the reasons argon gases were trapped excessively in Snellings diamond, etc...Page not found | Texas Memorial MuseumElectron capture occurs when an orbital electron is captured by the nucleus. The decay of potassium-40 to argon-4o occurs through electron capture. The nuclear charge decreases by one without any significant change in mass.

Coragyps, It does seem that argon is a noble gas, however, it might be this very reason, how it could be being pressed into the mineral lattice by the capillary pump pressures of dual porosity, you all believe the lava rocks Snelling dated were contaminated by atmospheric argon contamination, if so then, the capillary pressures being much greater than atmospheric pressures, can press water upward above the water table over 20 feet, argon being a noble gas would tend to bubble out of the capillary solution, like you said, argon doesn't ionize, it would tend to bubble out of solution, where over time, pressing into the mineral lattices, some pressing out, depending on the solute concentrations, as solutes levels and electrolyte potentials equalize, etc...P.S. This might explain why there is excess argon gas coming out of the oil wells, off gases, etc...[This message has been edited by whatever, 01-24-2004]

JonF, Well at least we agree that argon exists in the soils apart from the excess argon expressed some rocks, so you have argon gas in solution, so by the processes of dual porosity, could some argon be leaching out of the rocks into solution, if so then, some could be leaching back from the macropores into the micropores and then into the rock crystals by capillary forces, pressing out of solution, argon gas into the rock crystal structures of the igneous rocks, etc...P.S. I thought igneous rocks had fairly large lattice crystals, not like obsidian volcanic rock, that cooled too quickly to form a crystal lattice structure, etc...[This message has been edited by whatever, 01-25-2004]

JonF, Capillary forces wouldn't work in crystal lattices structures, but it brings the electrolyte solution into the micropores, and the crystal rocks structures have ionic forces within the structure due to the electric potential because of the earth's weak electric currents, causing cationic and anionic minerals to be drawn out of solution, or back into solution, one of the benefits and negatives of pollution is that these macro and micro pores will disperse the pollution, over a large area, but over time the whole aquifer could become polluted, and once its in the soil, remedial removal of bound toxins in soils is a problem, here was an interesting solution, to removing these toxins, just thought it interesting given my leaning the micropores are bringing toxins into the rocks, and one solution is to grind the soil, rocks, etc... into a powder, by doing this they are able to remove these toxins, etc...Page not found – Eco WorldP.S. It does seem that we agree how quickly the lava rock cools affects the crystal size, etc...[This message has been edited by whatever, 01-25-2004]

I've already expressed answers to your questions, Snellings diamonds is proof that Argon bubbles up through volcanic vents, that it exists in the basalt lavas(possibly up to 650 times the concentration as atmospheric levels), which you say is all dispersed before it cools, however, if basalt crystals form when lava's cool slowly under the sediments, and argon exists as a gas in the inner earth, while the lava's are cooling slowly argon would be diffusing into the crystals, etc...My little theory did address argon being a nobel gas, it would tend to bubble out of solution, and be pressed into the larger crystal, like a carrier gas, due to the much greater pressures generated the capillary pressing of the water solutes equalizing solute concentrations, into the micropores, and as like pollution disperses over a large area, so to would the electrolytes translocate all the different elements proportionally, explaining how come dating methods that agree one to the other is meaningless, if the sediments erupted out from the inner earth, they would of dated old even before they erupted out of the earth, like the concentrations of argon is believed to be up to 650 times the concentration in the inner earth lava's, and the solutes over 7 miles into the earth would of been pressing argon (the excess pressures and temps would only increase the diffusion of argon and translocation of minerals solutes by the capillary press, this deep in the earth, into the very rocks that erupted out of the earth by the flood model of the sediment of the deep erupting out with the water of the fountains of the deep, etc...[This message has been edited by whatever, 01-26-2004]

JonF, You've said that argon diffuses into the rocks when they are heated, that this is likely what happened with Snellings diamond, when lava is formed under the sediments so they cool slowly, the argon gas (possibly 650 times the concentration of the atomosphere)is prevented from escaping to the atmosphere, so it would of affected the argon diffusion, etc...the presense of argon in off gases of oil wells, coal mines shows argon is not bound in the sediments, so where did this free argon come from, if not from the inner earth, then it diffused out of the sediments by the capillary press, supporting the sediments would of dated old even before they erupted out from within the earth, etc...The capillary press explains how such argon could be pressed into and out of the crystal lattices of rocks, it would act like a carrier gas, with the ionic -OH and +H ions compounds drawn from the capillary electrolyte solutions translocating mineral cations and anions into or out of the crystals depending on the ionic levels in the electrolyte solution, the earth has an electric charge it would be responsible for the energy to carry the ions to and from the crystals, because the crystal would have both cation's and anion's and we all know opposites charges attract, etc...P.S. I'm not sure if it was Andrew Snelling or Steve Austin that expressed concern with leaching in respect to the assumptions of the dating methods, which needs the argon, potassium, or other elements not to of translocated for millions of years, for your methods to even be viable, so I've explained how by dual porosity and Ionic processes in crystals would beable to translocate ionic minerals, argon being a carrier gas, all in relatively short periods of time, proportionally(why even if the dating methods agree one to another it's meaningless), and interestingly, even Snellings famous wood fossil showed evidence it had mineralized between layers of basalt, with excess C-14 that shouldn't of been in the fossil if it was millions of years old, etc...[This message has been edited by whatever, 01-26-2004]

Loudmouth,
1: Do you feel argon is rising up from the mantle explaining the argon off gases of coal mines, and oil wells, or do your feel its being pressed out of the crystals as cation's anion's are drawn into the the capillary solution.2: How would a meterorite prime the capillary pump, there wouldn't be the electric earth currents, so how could argon be draw out of the crystal matrix,if its bound by the cation's anion's cages, that trap argon within the crystal matrix.3:You hear about how the solute concentrations are greater in the deep wells, so by dual porosity diffusion enhanced by excess heat why would not these solutes permeate into the metamorphic rocks, giving the illusion of great age, etc...4: If solutes are moving out of rock crystals because of ionic movements to the electrolyte capillary solutions, why wouldn't argon be released over time from anionic cationic cages as they were draw into solution, or be captured by the formation of these cages, proportionally, affecting the other dating methods proportionally, don't lose no sleep over this its just a theory that argon is moving, proportionally, etc....5: Given argon exist not bound by the sediments, whats to prevent argon from being dispersed within the macropores, and drawn into the micropores, by the capillary pump caused by micropores leaching contiually, into the macropores, etc...[This message has been edited by whatever, 01-26-2004]

JonF, I know you explained argon, but this article confirms that argon exists at times at higher level in magma from the inner earth, etc..http://www.geo.cornell.edu/...6notes03/656%2003Lecture06.pdf.I provide a different link previously that shows the earth exibits a weak electric current in the sediments, which you don't think exists in the earth, think that interesting, given the ionosphere, even the ocean salinity would be like an electrolyte, etc...Since its been confirmed that argon can exists in a solution, and by dual porosity come in close proximity with the crystal lattices, it should be quite easy for you to see how if argon presses into the lattice crystal, the cation's and anion's compound could form a cage around fooling your atomic dating methods, if the sediments erupted out from the earth, then they could all be old and fool your dating methods, making it appear that they are old, when the rocks could be deposited quite recently, igneous rocks showing they are old, simply because of proportional elemental diffusion, even though you feel the pressures in the fountains of the deep too great to diffuse into crystal lattices, though the rocks would be much hotter, so it should diffuse free minerals, more readily, etc...Were talking long periods of time for argon and other elements to tranlocate in the sediments on the surface of the earth, at least up to 4,350 years which with the capillary pumps of dual porosity leaching continually and the low electric current(electron ground, etc...), moving ions into and out of the rock crystals fooling your dating methodologies, etc...Argon is diffusing in because of the greater pressures than atmospheric pressures, where solute waters can press up over 20 feet above the water table, etc...Heres a site showing how water can flow through basalt rock permeating the micropores by reverse osmosis, why is it such a problem for you to accept the earth has an low electric current, and that this could easily explain how ions could be moving into and out of the crystal mineral lattices, etc...http://www.earth2o.com/source.htmhttp://fracflow.dk/Status/stat-hydro.htm[This message has been edited by whatever, 01-26-2004]

Jonf, This is where I got my idea from, for the electric currents, earth ground, etc...http://www.livingcosmos.com/earth.htm#HugeA Huge Nervous System
The Earth also has something like a huge nervous system. The Vital Vastness -- Volume One: Our Living Earth introduces the topic like this:All living things have a nervous system. Various complexities in nervous systems exist, ranging from the simplest forms in single-celled plants to highly complex ones in mammals, such as humans, dolphins, and whales. The web of life on Earth both creates and is affected by electrical currents on the Earth's surface and in the atmosphere. Termed telluric currents, geoelectricity and terrestrial electricity, many things contribute to this overall network. For the sake of simplifying the terminology these will be referred to as earth-currents in the following discussion.
The soil with its electrically conducting gases, metals, semiconducting mineral crystals, water-soaked organic matter, and electrolytes offers a good medium for maintaining and producing electrical currents. Water transports and renews these components and is an excellent electrical conductor itself. Pores, spaces, and other voids in the main surface rocks of the Earth (sedimentary, and fractured crystalline and metamorphic rocks) contain relatively large amounts of water, making them moderately good conductors of electricity. Radioactive decay of elements and radioactive gases in the air and soil produce charged particles (ions). Moving water and breaking water-films, such as waterfalls, rain and breaking waves, also produce charges. Studies conducted on sea water disclose the fact that the entire ocean has a high-frequency conductivity. These charges are emitted into the ground and water, or within the first few meters (several feet) of the atmosphere. Furthermore, the earth-currents are greatly increased by electrically grounded tall objects, such as vegetation and animals. Thereby, the charged particles (ions) are draw to the ground (planetary boundary layer) and high concentrations (10 ion pairs cm-3 sec-1) increase the intensity of earth-currents (electrode effect). As a result, static electricity flows parallel with the ground (orthogonal quasi-static electric field). These and other influences create a pathway for generating electricity, which travels to and along surface layers of the Earth. All things considered, the Earth's surface is a good conductor, and as a result, charges are observed to be distributed worldwide in only a short time.

wj, I thought when igneous rocks are heated it opens up the crystalline structures to trap the argon within the crystals, if there is actually an electric current in the earth sediments, then cation, or anions, if drawn into the the electrolyte solution from the crystalline structures would open up the crystals releasing some trapped argon, on the other side of the coin, if cations anions are being absorbed into the mineral lattice, then argon being a nobel gas would press into the crystal structures, and become trapped when the cations and anions bond to the crytalline lattices, etc...[This message has been edited by whatever, 01-26-2004]

wj, If metamorphic rock is heated but has an layer of rock above, or sediments, the argon there is no atmospheric pressure for it to be released from the rock matrix as it recools, why wouldn't the argon just diffuse in and get retrapped within the crystal matrix, etc...P.S. I'm not a scientists, but JonF wanted me to explain how the sediments dating methods are meaningless, so I winged him up a theory, to explain how meaningless the dating methods are, however, I'm not a scientists, so won't beable to prove argon is actually being pressed into the crystal matrix, however, Argon is a carrier gas, it might well slip into the crystal matrix, given the forces of capillary pressures, in light that you say argon has all its electron shells filled, etc...[This message has been edited by whatever, 01-27-2004]

I enjoyed the time off, perhaps too much, hope you're all cooled off a bit too, thought about this electric earth thing, never said there were macro electric currents, the problem seems more related to the micro electric currents, like the problems telegraph operaters in the early 1900's had, micro electric currents exists, its the reason a gas furnace alway are suppose to ground the gas lines to the copper water line, is it grounds the charges to earth ground, lightning rods too off this same principle, even power outages are believed caused by the sun causing electric surges in power lines, like the famous Canadian outage in Canada, which make one causes one to think in respect to the radioactive dating methods, given the earth is continually grounding ionic charges to ground, and K40 is converting to Ar40 due to electron gain in the nucleus, and magnetics is related to these micro electric currents, makes one wonder about the greater magnetic intensities of the magnetic reversals are expressing a greater micro electric currents existed in earths past, not sure if it was Andrew Snelling or Steve Autstin or both that said that the radioactive decay may not of been decaying at the same rate in the past, and just looking at the electric earth, accelerated decay seems more likely, explaining how our earth might actually be quite young, it is interesting that Benjamin Franklin proved lightning goes to earth ground, lots of interesting history, given the existence of these micro electric currents, and the belief its related to the magnetic expression of the earth, and that elements in the earth exibits some magnetic properties, this all makes dual porosity more plausible, argon and other elemental solutes coming into the micorpores, and due to these micro electric currents, causing ionic elemental movements in the crystal lattices of the rocks as solute electrolytes seek equilibrium, never reaching because the differences in solute concentrations in the micropores and macropores, as water runs into the water table, and trees draw from the water table, through the capillary water that bonds to the macropores, and leaches out of the micropores, the capillary press, dissolved argon pressing up into the micropores, being a slippery element because its electron shell is fully expressed, enhancing defussion (possibly explaining the free argon gas coming off coal mines and oil wells off gases, and diffusion, pressing into the crystal lattices because of the capillary pressures, I'm just agreeing to disagree, etc...I'm just trying to add imput, to cause you to think, why I brought up how the sediments could be quite young, frost causing rocks to press up out of the earth, in that these sediment testify they were deposited quite recently or all the rocks would of all pressed to the surface, frost typically only expressed by the upper 3.5 to 4 feet, the excess helium in the basement granite rocks also expressing these rocks were formed quite recently, how the other isotope dates in basement granites could be problematic due to the electric earth acceleration of isotope decay rates, affecting all the different decay rate's proportionally, dual porosity, ionic interplay in crystals lattices, then you have the problem with Snellings wood fossil that water had diffused through the basalt mineralizing his fossil a bit, this fossil expressed it was young due to the excess C-14, and the dating methods are based off an assumption that the radiocative decay has been constant, though the sediments would of dated old even before they erupted out from the earth, etc...P.S. Not planning on posting much, though its all been quite interesting, hopefully, I caused you all to but pause, and think outside the box, etc...[This message has been edited by whatever, 01-29-2004]
Adding only this little paragraph so if anyone carries on this topic its additional information.Dual Porosity in Liquefaction sediments are aided by anaerobic bacteria forming humic acids in anoxic zones that explains in part the mineralization before the lithification event of the sediments. Once lithification happens above the water table dual porosity becomes more of an aerobic remedial sedimentation process where kerogen itself is digestable by oxygen loving aerobic bacteria. Through dual porosity aided by aerobic bacteria minerals continue to be moved by the forces of dual porosity (the capillary solvent pump) etc...This message has been edited by The Golfer, 01-06-2006 11:46 AM