How old are you?

Sixty eight. Old enough to observe the changes in:
1. Weather -- Ozone factor makes sun hotter and more dangerous to be in.
Phenominal increase in frequency of tornadoes.
Ditto for floods.
Ditto for fires
Ditto for extreme temperatures and volitility of same.2. Dramatic shift of world newsworthy struggle and turmoil from other nations to the Middle East (especially Jerusalem) as the Bible prophesies for latter days of the age. I remember when no modern Israel on the map. It was a no man's land of unproductive waste land.3. To remember when in Wyoming where I grew up, silver dollars in the cash registers and watching the silver vanish and the government renigging on silver certificate promisary notes (silver certificates).4. To remember when WWII broke out and we all saved everything from tinfoil (contained real tin) to scrap iron for victory.5. Moral decline. You younguns haven't a clue on that one.6. To remember when people like Abbot and Costello, Spike Jones, Red Skelton, Milton Burroughs, Groucho Marx, Fibber McGee & Molly, Laurel and Hardy, Victor Borg, Phillis Diller, Lucy Ball, Bob Hope, Art Linkletter, etc really provided wholesome clean and funny intertainment. Most are no longer either wholesome or funny.7. To remember when you went the extra mile to save 2 cents on gas at 23 cents a gallon and when prices were fairly stable for decades.8. To remember when cool meant not warm, pot was a container, depression glass came in cereal, and candy bars were 5 cents.9. To remember when every school child sang "God Bless America," and "My Country, Tis Of Thee," America the Beautiful, Star Spangled Banner and Battle Hymn of the Republic" all acknowledging Jehovah God.10. To remember as an Airman, hitch hiking all over the country with little danger of being harmed when on leave.11. To remember when landlords could rent to whomever they wished, employers could hire or fire whomever they wished, and the size of government was a a fraction of what it is today per capita.

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Please.

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Elucidate us.

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Another thread for another time.

Rrhain, Zephyr and Schrafinator, thankfully folks who think like you people are still a shade in the minority. When the balance tips your way, America, as we know it will be history and you people along with the rest of us Americans can join the multitudes of the planet's majority oppressed, exterminated, imprisoned impoverished and otherwise generally miserable inhabitants of planet earth.

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You are downright scary sometimes.

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Well, Percy, you see, I've "read the back of the book," as the song goes and it looks like the wrath days we read about are beginning to appear on the horizon. But then afterwords, comes the King and the Kingdom.

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Dammit! I think I'm the oldest here too.

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Aw c'mon, Ned. Fes up on your age. Just think of all the respect you get by bein old.

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Let's see, Christians have been saying, "The end is nigh" for, oh, I don't know...EVER! Every time there is a war you Christians get so gleeful; you get downright drunk with ecstacy if people are killing each other in the Middle East and Israel.

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1. The doctrine pretribulation imminent rapture[/i] espoused by the majority of modern day evangelical circles has, imo, hurt the cause for truth concerning end time prophecy. The doctrine of an imminent rapture, i.e. that the gathering up of the Christians into heaven has always been imminent, is not consistent with what Jesus, the apostles and the prophets taught. This doctrine began in the early 19th century and has grown to become the prevailing interpretation. According to the prophecies, there are still some things to come before that rapture/resurrection, though it is undeniable that it is relatively near, the advancement of change increasing ever so rapidly in these times. Please don't implicate all Christians in one charge. That's neither honest nor fair, is it?2. Your charge that Christians are rejoicing and estatic about war is false Christophobic hatespeak. 60 million died at the hands of their own athiest communist governments last century. A large percentage of the victims of these were Christians as is the case in our century in nations where Islam is consolidating its grip on nations such as Sudan and Indonesia. Nobody wants war. Islamics destroyed our major financial center on 9/11, crippling our economy and killing our citizens. In response we went after Afganistan and Iraq to send the message loud and clear that a price would be paid for terrorism on this scale. Christians as well as the majority of secularists in America supported the responses. So where is your support for this outrageous falsehood. (Where are Percy's admonitions when his ideological friends post these whoppers??)

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Now, are you going to admit that the past 40 or 50 years had just as much ugliness in it as "wholesome and clean" fun?

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I didn't say there was no ungliness. What I said clearly is that there's a moral decline, rise in crime and disintegration of the home.[This message has been edited by buzsaw, 08-02-2003]

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Matthew 24:34: Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

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What he was saying here, is that the generation which sees these things (like Israel back in control of Jerusalem and end of Gentile times) shall not pass (pass away) till all is fulfilled. I'm interpreting this in view of other things he and the prophets said. You can make scripture appear to say just about anything you want it to say by isolating statements like this.

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When I get to the point where I'm reminiscing about tinfoil drives, cheap candy bars, child labor and vaudeville (or on my sixty-eighth birthday, whichever comes first), I hereby demand that you come to my house and hang me from a fucking sycamore.

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Talk is cheap, yungun. Someday, you too will mature in age, and hopefully, in wisdom.

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You are aware that 1) Stalin was a seminary student prior to the revolution,

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Yes I am aware of that. So how does that diminish his athiesm after rejection of Christ and Christianity? How does that diminish is ruthless murderous mindset as a dedicated athiestic communist?
In retrospect it appears he made a mistake by converting out of Christianity and the world would've been a better safer place had he stuck to Christianity, aye?

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2) that it was not just christians but many other religious groups which the communists butchered as well; in fact, the attitudes of the political elite in Russia against non-Russians in different Soviets of the USSR is well documented, and non-christians (i.e. budists, tarks, moslems and jews) from non-Russian soviets bore a disproportionate brunt of the deaths and "political re-education".

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Did you miss this statement in my post??
"A large percentage of the victims of these were Christians"

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Incorrect. He is not talking about some future generation. He is talking about that generation...the ones he is speaking to directly, right there, right then. Some of those people to whom he was directly speaking would live to see the end of the world.

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That was nearly 2,000 years ago. Are they still alive?

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The text is obvious that he was talking about a time in the future when his gospel would be preached worldwide, Jerusalem would be occupied by gentiles until their age was completed, gentiles out and Jews back in, there would be many wars, rumors of wars, earthquakes in unusual places, the sun and moon darkened, false christs and prophets arising, and more.Note that the verse before his generation statement, he says, "when you see these things beginning to pass, you know that it is near, even at the door."
What things? The list of things he said would happen. It is only sensible to understand that his little gospel isn't going worldwide, the Jews being scattered and then returning and all this stuff in one generation. There's a whole lotta things to happen before the generation coming he was speaking of.Get real, Rrhain!I've done my homework on the Bible and especially the prophecies -- 58 years of it and you need a lot more understanding in it and related texts before you're gonna be able to say it's gotta be as you see it.

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Well done, buzsaw! I concur heartily.

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WOW! I can't believe somebody in town actually agrees with me on something. THANKS, Defender!! Are you a real person or an angel from Heaven? Whoever you are, don't run off![This message has been edited by buzsaw, 08-17-2003]

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I'm here to stay.

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Good. I hope you're thick skinned. That you must be as a fundamentalist Biblical creationist here in this townif you plan to stay.

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I really enjoyed your arguments on the authority of the Bible. You sound like a staunch creationist (just like me).

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I am a fundamentalist Biblical creationist. I don't believe that Genesis one necessarily teaches a young earth, but I do believe all animals (including the dinosaurs} and mankind were created about six milleniums ago. The plants were created on day three (before the sun and moon) which became the measurement for the 24 hour day so since we don't know how long an evening and morning were before the sun and moon measured them to 24 hours, I don't think we can be sure they were not long periods of time.

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Have you ever visited the Answers in Genesis website?

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I just checked it out. Thanks. I'll look it over more when I have more time.[This message has been edited by buzsaw, 08-18-2003]

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Here's a rule of thumb - if you didn't write it yourself, we've seen it.

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1. This's not altogether true. I've posted links, scripture, personal quotes, statistics, etc of material that the input and responses of the majority of you people suggest you have either never seen, you need to be reminded of, you chose to ignore, or you have forgotten.2. When one posts responses or statements one is not expertise in, one may need to use links of persons whose expertise is sufficient for intelligent participation. Some of you folks who are not expertise on Biblical subjects have done the same by quoting scripture or other source for argument. On occasion this may render the need for some repetition.3. You core posters here, for the most part, who are highly educated, highly experienced debaters and of above average intelligence (but of one mindset), have been here for a long period of time. Many who have not been here for a lengthy time simply don't have time to research the archives to see all that's been said and quoted or linked.4. Having said the above is not a total refutation of your points by me. It's just that your post should not intimidate newcomers to the point that they're squeemish about using other reference material to support their personal views which they wish to communicate here, especially in the free for all forum.

.............point 5. Often when one makes a statement or claim, another challenges with something like, ".....and your proof is," or "......that's false/untrue." What is one to do? Lie down and roll over? I often choose rather to bring up a link or quote other authority to support my challenged statement or claim. Creationists likely are more likely to resort to this here in this town because there are so few of us to support one one another's views. Evos, on the other hand very often lend support one another in debating a single creationist, they being the vast majority here.

Thanks, Crashfrog, for clarification. Btw, from almost day one of my arrival, though we occasionally lock horns in spirited debate, you're one of my favorite evo counterparts here. May God (Jehovah, that is) enlighten us all.