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Author Topic:   The Anthropic Principal - Cosmology
fallacycop
Member (Idle past 3625 days)
Posts: 692
From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil
Joined: 02-18-2006


Message 31 of 69 (389789)
03-15-2007 2:05 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by bebotx1
03-15-2007 1:40 PM


I'll take your refusal to address my points as evidence of the utter lack of intelectual honesty from your part. That's something I do not take lightly
This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by bebotx1, posted 03-15-2007 1:40 PM bebotx1 has not yet responded

  
bebotx1
Member (Idle past 4326 days)
Posts: 32
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 32 of 69 (389790)
03-15-2007 2:08 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Dan Carroll
03-15-2007 1:55 PM


Re: God-did-it doesn't help
The "what" would be the universe. You guys always bring God into it. Next you'll be telling me to repent bla bla.

I picked the "created with a purpose" thing to illustrate what a valid explanation would look like (vs. the AP thing)

Look at what Tusko posted - also valid explanations.

I'd hope in time we would gain more certainty about which is the case. (I say hope because not all problems are solvable)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Dan Carroll, posted 03-15-2007 1:55 PM Dan Carroll has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by Dan Carroll, posted 03-15-2007 2:38 PM bebotx1 has responded

    
cavediver
Member (Idle past 1748 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 33 of 69 (389791)
03-15-2007 2:16 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Tusko
03-15-2007 1:40 PM


Re: God-did-it doesn't help
3)postulate the whole shebang has existed forever and as a consequence wasn't created.

Non-sequitur I'm afraid :) As far as we are aware...

The Universe can be temporally finite and be created
The Universe can be temporally finite and not be created
The Universe can be temporally infinite and be created
The Universe can be temporally infinite and not be created

Do I sound like Jar? :D

And if anyone wants to appreciate the Anthropic Principle (Weak), read PaulK's and SG's contributions. Me, I'm off to see a Genesis tribute band perform the Selling England gig :cool:


This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Tusko, posted 03-15-2007 1:40 PM Tusko has responded

Replies to this message:
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 Message 64 by Tusko, posted 03-16-2007 8:58 AM cavediver has responded

  
bebotx1
Member (Idle past 4326 days)
Posts: 32
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 34 of 69 (389793)
03-15-2007 2:27 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by cavediver
03-15-2007 2:16 PM


Re: Zod-did-it doesn't help
You are objecting to his use of the word "consequence" - yea, he should have skipped that.
This message is a reply to:
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Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 35 of 69 (389795)
03-15-2007 2:38 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by bebotx1
03-15-2007 2:08 PM


Re: God-did-it doesn't help
The "what" would be the universe.

As I said... already known, and therefore not explained by the non-explanation.

You guys always bring God into it.

I think that when discussing "God did it" as an explanation, God is already in it. However, if you move the goalposts to "an intelligence with an intended purpose", you've clarified nothing. What intelligence? What intended purpose? What was the process of creation? Still a completely empty non-explanation.

Next you'll be telling me to repent bla bla.

You do realize that I'm saying "God did it" is not a valid explanation, right?

Look at what Tusko posted - also valid explanations.

Except for the part where they fail to actually explain anything, sure.


"I know some of you are going to say 'I did look it up, and that's not true.' That's 'cause you looked it up in a book. Next time, look it up in your gut."
-Stephen Colbert
This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by bebotx1, posted 03-15-2007 2:08 PM bebotx1 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by bebotx1, posted 03-15-2007 3:46 PM Dan Carroll has responded

  
bebotx1
Member (Idle past 4326 days)
Posts: 32
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 36 of 69 (389801)
03-15-2007 3:46 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Dan Carroll
03-15-2007 2:38 PM


Re: God-did-it doesn't help
Well, you start with some theories (potential explanation) then look at the evidence and see if it supports it or goes against it.

These scenarios DO fill that criteria. -- ie. they are potentially falsifiable.

Edited by bebotx1, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Dan Carroll, posted 03-15-2007 2:38 PM Dan Carroll has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by Dan Carroll, posted 03-15-2007 3:59 PM bebotx1 has responded

    
Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 37 of 69 (389802)
03-15-2007 3:59 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by bebotx1
03-15-2007 3:46 PM


Re: God-did-it doesn't help
Well, you start with some theories (potential explanation)

Great. Soon as we come across a theory that actually does some explaining, we'll be all set.

then look at the evidence and see if it supports it or goes against it.
These scenarios DO fill that criteria. -- ie. they are potentially falsifiable.

Marvelous. Please provide the evidence that supports them or goes against them, and explain how they can be falsified.


"I know some of you are going to say 'I did look it up, and that's not true.' That's 'cause you looked it up in a book. Next time, look it up in your gut."
-Stephen Colbert
This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by bebotx1, posted 03-15-2007 3:46 PM bebotx1 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by bebotx1, posted 03-15-2007 4:09 PM Dan Carroll has responded

  
bebotx1
Member (Idle past 4326 days)
Posts: 32
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 38 of 69 (389805)
03-15-2007 4:09 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Dan Carroll
03-15-2007 3:59 PM


Re: God-did-it doesn't help
Well, lets take this one.

3)postulate the whole shebang has existed forever and so wasn't created

I guess if research shows that the universe won't contract (and so permit somekind of recursion) And that it had a starting point. Then I would say this one is false.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Dan Carroll, posted 03-15-2007 3:59 PM Dan Carroll has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by Dan Carroll, posted 03-15-2007 4:26 PM bebotx1 has responded

    
Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 39 of 69 (389807)
03-15-2007 4:26 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by bebotx1
03-15-2007 4:09 PM


Re: God-did-it doesn't help
Well, lets take this one.

Cool. Now perhaps you could take one that involves the undefined terms like "god" or "designer" or "creator" or what-have-you.


"I know some of you are going to say 'I did look it up, and that's not true.' That's 'cause you looked it up in a book. Next time, look it up in your gut."
-Stephen Colbert
This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by bebotx1, posted 03-15-2007 4:09 PM bebotx1 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by bebotx1, posted 03-15-2007 4:32 PM Dan Carroll has responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 14801
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 40 of 69 (389808)
03-15-2007 4:27 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by bebotx1
03-15-2007 10:27 AM


Since you didn't deal with my point, here it is again.


Try answering this.

Is it reasonably possible that things could be otherwise, that instead of being on one of the few life-friendly planets we could be elsewhere, without some reason why ?

If the answer is no, then you concede that Dawkins' statement is all the explanation needed.

"All the explanation needed" is the key. It is not a causal explanation but it presents reasons to expect things to be as hey are and it is an explanation in that sense.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by bebotx1, posted 03-15-2007 10:27 AM bebotx1 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by bebotx1, posted 03-15-2007 4:48 PM PaulK has responded

    
bebotx1
Member (Idle past 4326 days)
Posts: 32
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 41 of 69 (389809)
03-15-2007 4:32 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by Dan Carroll
03-15-2007 4:26 PM


Re: God-did-it doesn't help
LOL, oh I'm sorry - I didn't pick the one you wanted me to?

or is it .... you want to talk about God again.

knock yourself out; http://www.jesus.com


This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Dan Carroll, posted 03-15-2007 4:26 PM Dan Carroll has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by Dan Carroll, posted 03-15-2007 4:52 PM bebotx1 has responded

    
bebotx1
Member (Idle past 4326 days)
Posts: 32
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 42 of 69 (389812)
03-15-2007 4:48 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by PaulK
03-15-2007 4:27 PM


K, in truth i skipped you because there were too many people. I thought people would discuss with each other but almost all seen to want a reply from me.

quote:
Is it reasonably possible that things could be otherwise, that instead of being on one of the few life-friendly planets we could be elsewhere, without some reason why?

But If we were elsewhere we would classify it as life-freindly because we would be on it. The statement is a tautology.

In my mind this just boils down to "Things are the way they are"

quote:
"It is not a causal explanation but it presents reasons to expect things to be as they are"

But It doesn't give a reason.

Edited by bebotx1, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by PaulK, posted 03-15-2007 4:27 PM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by PaulK, posted 03-15-2007 4:55 PM bebotx1 has responded

    
Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 43 of 69 (389813)
03-15-2007 4:52 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by bebotx1
03-15-2007 4:32 PM


Re: God-did-it doesn't help
LOL, oh I'm sorry - I didn't pick the one you wanted me to?

You didn't pick the one that had any relevance to what we were talking about. You could also have falsfied the statement "bebotx1 doesn't have an answer, and is avoiding the subject," but it wouldn't have had anything to do with whether or not positing the existence of a god is a valid explanation.

Y'know... like you said it was, in this post. (And several times since.)

Edited by Dan Carroll, : for shits and giggles


"I know some of you are going to say 'I did look it up, and that's not true.' That's 'cause you looked it up in a book. Next time, look it up in your gut."
-Stephen Colbert
This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by bebotx1, posted 03-15-2007 4:32 PM bebotx1 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by bebotx1, posted 03-15-2007 4:59 PM Dan Carroll has responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 14801
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 44 of 69 (389814)
03-15-2007 4:55 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by bebotx1
03-15-2007 4:48 PM


quote:

But If we were elsewhere we would classify it as life-freindly because we would be on it. The statement is a tautology.

How badly wrong can you be ? We wouldn't classify it as life-friendly BECAUSE we were there. It would have to be life-friendly FOR us to be there. Unless there were some reason why we ended up there - and somehow preserved us despite the hostile environment.

And that is an adequate reason for why we happen to find ourselves in a friendly (relatively speaking) environment.

Edited by PaulK, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by bebotx1, posted 03-15-2007 4:48 PM bebotx1 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by bebotx1, posted 03-15-2007 5:04 PM PaulK has responded

    
bebotx1
Member (Idle past 4326 days)
Posts: 32
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 45 of 69 (389815)
03-15-2007 4:59 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Dan Carroll
03-15-2007 4:52 PM


Re: God-did-it doesn't help
That was quick - I thought you'd be on that site for hours.

Actually - this post is talking about how AP is just a description of how things are and RD claiming it is some kind of explanation is nuts.

now, to the more recent point.

Yes of course if the earth was intentionally created it would be an explanation of why it was here.

Are you gonna argue with that?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Dan Carroll, posted 03-15-2007 4:52 PM Dan Carroll has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by Dan Carroll, posted 03-15-2007 5:06 PM bebotx1 has responded

    
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