Take the Atheist Challenge!!!

While this challenge is of noble thought it is missing some very important factors.God absolutly speaks in a loud voice. Once you feel his presence you will feel like you are plugged into an electric socket.Too feel the Lord and know the truth requires the simplest hardest thing to do.You must repent in the name of Jesus, and openly ask him into your heart. It is impossible to stop all sin, just try it and you'll find out, but it is the trying that counts. The moment you see yourself sinning, stop and ask for forgiveness from him.Everyone here know the "Our father"? You must forgive all your enemies to be forgiven.Just as if we fill our bodies with junk and drugs and bad food, we cannot be healthy, we cannot be with God if we are sinning.I don't care what religion you ever went to, its not about religion, its about God and you. You can have a personal relationship with him, its your right to have one, and you shouldn't let the rest of the world get in your way.The word Truth will take on a whole new meaning.Now in this order, try the following. It must be done with all of your heart.Openly ask Jesus to come into your heart. (Be open hearted) ( I also find it helpful if you do this in a public place, like a church that you feel comfortable in, not all churches are worthy, but it is not neccesary.)
Repent from all your sins, and stop sinning for a couple of weeks.
Pray the "Our father" and mean it. Really forgive the people who sinned against you. Pray this in a quiet place, on your knees, and ask the father to speak to you. Listen very carefully to the thoughts in your head.
Do all of this in Jesus's name.You have studied and preached science your whole life. I think its worth your time to spend a few weeks looking for God(not to say you haven't already, but maybe you were miss guided).I will pray that if you truely follow this challenge (its God's challenge, not mine) you will come to know the Lord, that you will be filled with the Holy Spirit, and you will know the Truth.
I pray this in Jesus's name.I recommened to read Acts, and John(especially John 14). You can read it here:
BibleGateway.com: A searchable online Bible in over 150 versions and 50 languages.
Try the NIV version, as I find it to be very good.
Also ask God to show you his word when reading it.
Try to understand the Holy Spirit. Jesus sent him here for us, and it is the word of God, so that we may believe, but it takes a leap of faith to get to know him.

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not to say you haven't already, but maybe you were miss guided

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I say all that I have said with the utmost respect and Love. I mentioned that you may have been through it, but for some reason, you choose not to believe, that is fine.The problem comes when people such as yourself start preaching a religion that takes far more faith than God. I came from that arena, I now know the Truth in my heart, and can only speak for myself.Were you a born again christian? What religion did you subscribe too? There are so many reasons why you would feel that the voice in your head was fake. The Devil can make you feel that way too. I will never know the reason, or do I want to.I am not religious at all, I just Love my God and he Loves me right back. He has made the Truth known to me, and I have the right to say so. Its America.Why is it that you get so angry when someone trys to share the truth with you? Is it that much of a problem for you?Have you truely tried to do the things Jesus asks of us? Don't answer me, just tell Jesus.

The entire TOE is propaganda, but you read about it?I also never assumed anything, but by your defensive reaction, I wonder.
Just my opinion.Being raised by "thiests" means nothing to me.

Please don't say that I have no respect for anyone, as I respect all man.I have yet to meet an ahteist who believed in God at one point in thier life, explain to me the way I feel about God. Which led me to believe that they "might" have the wrong idea of God. But that would be judging on my part, and I will never know the Truth about that.All I can do is speak of my own experience, and quote scripture. Our destination is all the same, but our paths there are different. I can tell you from experience, that you absolutly can feel God through the Holy Spirit. Finding this feeling requires a lot of effort on your part, not mine. I can only pray for you.To me Religion is man's worst enemy, because it is run by man.
Knowledge is man's second worst enemy, and it came from man also.God does not have to look for you. You have to look for him, thats what Jesus taught us. I found it to work, just like he said.

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And this has what to do with the thread's topic?

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You mean you don't know?
If an Atheist tells me not to read or suggest reading the Bible because he "feels" its proaganda, Then we shouldn't read anything that requires faith or has been changed a few thousand times, such as the TOE.Right?This message has been edited by riVeRraT, 05-10-2004 12:17 AM

No problem Storm, but I didn't start those ridiculus claims, they needed answers.I was raised with the TOE. I believed it for many years.
I am a huge fan of science, but I am not a scientist.
I am an amateur astromomer, and a amateur radio operator, so I am very familiar with the speed of light, and I am fascinated by it.
I also build and fly planes, and own my own HVAC business that requires a vast knowledge of eletricity, physics, and chemistry.I am fascinated by all the limits of our Universe, but now know why we are so limited.You can't tell me that science hasn't revised its stance on every subject that has come from it, at least 2 or 3 times. You must go back to start of it all and what was once thought about any particular subject. Study the complete history of science and its various subjects.I can tell you this, and this is my own personal experience. The Bible tells me that after Jesus died, and rose to heaven, that God wrote his laws on the minds and hearts of everyone after that. When you follow his word, you then can recieve the Holy Spirit(the bible says). (It was 100 times more fun than a science experiment for me). Once I felt the Holy Spirit, my whole being felt as if I was "born again" (now I know where that saying comes from) I felt as if I was a new being, and all Truth's are now known to me. I no longer had to wonder where I came from (not that it ever really bothered me that much). I felt a confirmation in my heart.
It's like if someone tells you the truth about something, and you know he is speaking the truth, you get a small feeling of the word truth. Well times that by 1,000,000 and thats the feeling I got and still get to this day. It can go away as quickly as it came by not following God's word. But usually after you feel this, you not only want to follow God's word, but throughly enjoy it. (Thats why I wonder about athiests who were once thiests, but thats not me, or my place to judge it)Thats how it is for me.

You have no clue at all about me.
You are only saying the things you are saying to try and get to me and my beliefs.But too bad because they are my beliefs and not yours, no need to get angry.Live without God for a month? Ha, I lived without him for 38 years, got you on that one.T4 phage? I am not a biologist. I read that whole statement in another thread from you, and investegated it already. I investegated many "forced evolutionary changes in bacteria in a lab" papers. Too me the bacteria are only doing what they are designed to do. It doesn't prove evolution to me in the least (yes I still regard science as a very useful tool)
They use the tools that are in them already to survive thier surroundings, just like everything else that God created. No surprise there. Call me when one of your bacteria walks out of the dish and kisses you on the cheek, and makes you breakfast.Listen, if you fall in Love with a chick, and she Loves you back forever, isn't that felt in your heart? Thats the way I feel God.I would appreciate it if you stayed on topic.

And yes, if you put your faith in TOE, then it is your religion. You believe in it by faith, and preach it by faith. Tell me the difference?I on the other hand am not to crazy about religion, only God.
Religion can be cool, if you find the right bunch of people. But it all falls under my 80/20 rule.80% of everything in any subject stinks. That shouldn't stop you from believing in it though. Just go find the 20%, that is good.

Wait a second LAM, you guys are not being fair about this whole subject. You have not stated if you believe in God or not.So if you don't then you could be very close to commiting the fallacy of appeal to unqualified authority.Don't think for one second, I could not achieve anything on any level. God was good to me. But if I am not a biologists, then you must put speak things on my level. That is how I would speak to you, and not put myself higher than anyone.

I was looking for a quote button, thank you for pointing out the reply button.
The fact that science is constantly changing, and many facets of it are always being proved wrong, then why preach it in schools to little children like it was fact. Thats how it was presented to me. God never had a chance. Creation never had a chance. It wasn't even mentioned.
They been trying to prove TOE for 135 years. Don't you think you should start looking for another explaination? At least explore the possibilitys? Instead of just getting mad a "religious" people?Science will never explain why we are here? So why should it try to explain how we are here. Theres no way it happened all by chance, think about it. I mean really think about it. Its so silly. From the first amino acid.
How much information could be written about the simplest form of life?
A small book right? That all happened by chance, lol.

You totally missed my point, so go back and read my stance on science.

The fact that science is constantly changing is a good thing, but you also totally missed my point. I only take science for whats its worth. a useful tool sometimes, when it comes to things that are proven.
I will not put my faith in it period.
I will study it, and use it it, but thats it.

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And yet, the mere existence of atheists and every other non-Christian religion proves that claim wrong.

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No it doesn't, I won't even tell you what I really think of that statement. It doesn't prove sqaut.

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And yet, the typical experience of atheists raised in Christian environments shows that claim to be wrong. They followed the word but they didn't receive the Holy Spirit.

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Now are you willing to accept that those who don't believe in Jesus are just as sincere as you are?

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I cannot accept any of that either, as then I would be judging people. I cannot see whats in a persons heart. All I can do , and did do was state what happened to me. If you would like to use my own experience anyway you want, then thats up to you.
If God came down and smacked you in the face, would you then believe?
Faith brought me to the point of "meeting" God, now I just have to keep believing, and its not faith anymore.
If you haven't "meet" God yet, then I can't tell what you need to do, because I don't pretend to know you, its all between you and God.

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I'm beginning to think that you don't know jack about science. Either that, or you've had some very bad teachers.

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For one thing, creationism had spent 2,000 years on the top. It is science's turn.

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Again, you are pointing out one of the strongest points of science as if it is the weakest. That is probably the only reason why I have dedicated myself to science. If something turn out to be wrong, it's wrong. Better than being dogmatic about it.

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Creationism, was never taught as a science, so it was never on top.
Yes the teachers were bad, probably don't believe in God. But thats for another discussion. Again I don't want to judge them, but they never taught it ot us like the TOE was just that, a theory. There were alot of things that were taught to us like fact, but they weren't.The strongest points of science, are the things that have been proven. Even then, it could all change with new discoverys. Is this a bad thing? Nope. But its not where I put my faith.

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This is the statement that really convinced me that you don't know jack about science.

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Everytime you feel like you know it all, go check yourself.
Please tell me the story of the bacterial flagellum.And yes I am important, so are you.
Don't tell me that science isn't dying to find out why we are here. That statement shows that you are not being a true scientist. Science would love to learn everything about everything. as it should.I don't need a goddunit answer, since I already meet with him on a regular bases. People who know God, don't really look at science the same way you do. But that doesn't make science unneccsary.

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You'd be surprised to how big a book can get regarding the simplest life on Earth.

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Thats my point. Thanks for pointing it out.

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And you dare to think that you have a clue about me?

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No, and I guess you will never tell us what your true convictions are, cause then what would happen?I keep telling you, I can only speak for myself, can you accept that?
You wrote in a defensive stance, leading me to believe your are getting defensive. You seem to have anger towards the subject, but its hard to tell in a forum, and is irrelevant anyway.I am not preaching at all, just telling you what happened to me. I used to believe in the TOE for my whole life, now I don't. Is that some sort of problem for you?I feel as though your the one preaching in here. You use science and all its unproven formulas as reasons not to believe in God. Am I correct?

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I think you're finally figuring it out: If you find it in poor taste when I do it to you, haven't you considered the possibility that maybe it's in poor taste for you to do it to me?

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Please tell me how quoting scripture, and sharing my own experiences with you is preaching, and not respecting, and offensive to you. And why you feel the need to do something back to me.It was a challenge, a challenge directly from the Bible, not me. If you don't want to take it, then don't. I will still pray for you.

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So what's one month gonna do? Kill you? You're so quick to dare me to follow your religion, but you're so hesitant to turn around and give up yours.

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Why should anybody do what you're unwilling to?

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I searched for God for 13 years before I found him. I went on faith for many years, now recently he has shown himself to me. How could I possible give up God? That wouldn't make him go away. I already know what it feels like to doubt the presense of God. I don't need to try your experiment. I was forced into that experiment by society, so I already know the answer.If your unwilling to do something then don't do it, thats pretty simple isn't it. No one is forcing you to do anything in here. I am sorry if you feel that way.

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The colony is descended from a single ancestor. Therefore, if there is no such thing as evolution, they should all behave in the exact same manner. If one is susceptible to the infective agent, then they should all be susceptible. If one dies, they all die.

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The fact that not all die, the fact that a few survive indicates that evolution does happen.

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Obviously bacteria is way more complicated than you ever imagined, so you science dudes should go study it more. Darwin never knew about the flagellum did he? But it was there. Sorry I don't find the fact that some bacteria can be immune to a plauge proof of evolution. How do we know it wasn't already designed to act that way? Can you prove that?Why should they all behave the same way? What law or theory proves that?Forced microbiological experiments are of a different subject but still try to prove evolution in a lab, and fail to do so IMO.
Sorry I mentioned it.

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If they were "designed" to do that, then they should all do the exact same thing. They're all descended from a single ancestor and thus if one is susceptible, then all are susceptible.

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Did you actually extract DNA from each one of those bacteria, to see if they were exactly the same? Me my brother and sister all came from my mother, but we act different.
Did you actually find the reason why some of the bacteria wasn't affected? What did the bacteria do to protect themselves? What did the others not do?
Why would it be that only some would evolve. What determines that?

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There's no other conclusion except that some of the bacteria evolved. And, in fact, if you do a genetic analysis of the bacteria that survived and compare it to the original genome, you will find discrepancies.

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Was this done before and after the infection?
Do bacteria comunicate with each other? I wonder. They are pretty complicated.Is each sibbling an exact clone of the parent? down to the last DNA?

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So why is it the vast majority of the world's population is incapable of seeing this "chick" that you love?

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Who are you to tell them that they were "miss guided"

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Because the Bible tells us this will happen. Its of no surprise to me.
I am not telling anyone that they are misguided (I merely wonder if). (sorry for the spelling error, Math is my stronger subject) Blue collar workers such as myself don't have to rely on writing too much, but that doesn't mean that I am not as smart as the next guy.
If you discuss this with me in laymen terms, I can keep up with your vocabulary.

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Because you are confusing observation with theory.

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I haven't confused anything, only unconfused myself. I now understand science and what it is for.How is evolution fact? That would make it proven, no?Yes gravity is fact, if a piano fell on your head, you would feel it.
Gravity and magnetism are my favorite subject, I wish I knew more about it.Comparing gravity to evolution is as absurd as me comparing bacteria to something getting out of dish and kissing you on the cheek.Evolution has never been observed, if it has that is news to me.
You call it evolution, what happened in your little experiment?Wow, I mean you put so many words into my mouth, I think you need to stop that. Why is it that evolution is the only theory, and why isn't creation a science?Lets cut to the chase here, and I wonder if you could answer a few questions,Is evolution proven, yes or no?
Is creation disproven, if so, how?
Do you believe in life after death?
Do you have kids?
How does evolution explain Love?
Are you angry at religion?Lets start there, oh and BTW, the Pope is just another man to me. I could care less what the entire catholic religion has to say about God
or anything else for that matter. But that doesn't mean that I do not like catholics.Who is mad?
Anyone who uses name calling to describe stuff. Then their emotions are getting involved.