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Author Topic:   Here be my problem with "God"
compmage
Member (Idle past 5184 days)
Posts: 601
From: South Africa
Joined: 08-04-2005


Message 81 of 106 (87031)
02-17-2004 2:06 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by Phat
02-16-2004 9:34 AM


Phatboy writes:
Sin by definition is any thought that exalts itself above the living God.
Given that there is no evidence that there is a living god, this definition is meaningless. I might as well define sin as anything that exalts itself abive the divine funckle, it has just as much meaning.

Freedom, morality, and the human dignity of the individual consists precisely in
this; that he does good not because he is forced to do so, but because he freely
conceives it, wants it, and loves it.
- Mikhail Bakunin, God and the State, from The Columbian Dictionary of Quotations

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by Phat, posted 02-16-2004 9:34 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by Phat, posted 02-17-2004 2:50 PM compmage has replied

  
compmage
Member (Idle past 5184 days)
Posts: 601
From: South Africa
Joined: 08-04-2005


Message 84 of 106 (87262)
02-18-2004 1:06 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by Phat
02-17-2004 2:50 PM


Re: God is NOT my Daddy!
Phatboy writes:
Starting your own flow rather than going with the flow. Doing things the way you want and not the way your Daddy says you should.
So if society or your father condones or encourages rape and murder you would find these things acceptable?
Phatboy writes:
What does sin mean to you?
To me, nothing much. It is a term some thiests use to describe the actions they don't want me, or anyone else, to perform.

Freedom, morality, and the human dignity of the individual consists precisely in
this; that he does good not because he is forced to do so, but because he freely
conceives it, wants it, and loves it.
- Mikhail Bakunin, God and the State, from The Columbian Dictionary of Quotations

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by Phat, posted 02-17-2004 2:50 PM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by ThingsChange, posted 02-18-2004 1:58 PM compmage has replied

  
compmage
Member (Idle past 5184 days)
Posts: 601
From: South Africa
Joined: 08-04-2005


Message 89 of 106 (87504)
02-19-2004 1:33 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by ThingsChange
02-18-2004 1:58 PM


Re: Free of Doctrine
ThingsChange writes:
Your first and second statements seem contradictory, but I think I understand what you mean (i.e. semantics of the term).
Except that the first was a question and not a statement. The question was, however, asked in the hope of getting Phatboy to see that his definition for sin could result in actions I'm fairly sure he considers sinful, instead being the norm and therefore not sinful (by his definition).
ThingsChange writes:
From where I see things going, it looks like moral standards evolve over time in Western civilization, and time will tell if that is a successful "organism" in the global competitive/political world.
Morals have always evolved. They are a collection of values and stardards of behaviur that society as a whole finds acceptble. As society changes, so does its morals.

Freedom, morality, and the human dignity of the individual consists precisely in
this; that he does good not because he is forced to do so, but because he freely
conceives it, wants it, and loves it.
- Mikhail Bakunin, God and the State, from The Columbian Dictionary of Quotations

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by ThingsChange, posted 02-18-2004 1:58 PM ThingsChange has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by Smitty500, posted 02-19-2004 9:57 PM compmage has replied

  
compmage
Member (Idle past 5184 days)
Posts: 601
From: South Africa
Joined: 08-04-2005


Message 94 of 106 (87800)
02-20-2004 6:31 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by Smitty500
02-19-2004 9:57 PM


Re: Free of Doctrine
Smitty500 writes:
This is obviously true in some respects.
Not some, all.
Smitty500 writes:
Obviously it was status quo to hate Jews, or at least this can be inferred from the circumstances. Therefore the German society says its ok to hate Jews.
Assuming for the moment that the majority of Germans did think like this and that I was there. The thing is, I don't have to agree with the morals of the society in which I live, however, if I cross the line where society no longer finds my actions acceptable, society will punish me. My choices, either conform to their morals, move to a place that share my morals, try to change their morals, or go against the grain and get punished.
Smitty500 writes:
Yet after the war was won, we put this guard on trial for inhuman acts of genocide in the Nuremburg trials. Which society's moral code should be observed here?
There is no 'should', or rather what 'should' be done according to your or I is irrelevant. Those in control will enforce the law that they subscibe too. In a democracy or a republic, they people (society) is able to influence what those laws are and so the laws tend to reflect to morals of the citizens in general. Sometimes, as in a dictatorship, those in control get to make the laws as they please, at least until society has had enough and gets rid of them.
Smitty500 writes:
It's kinda shady isn't it.
Shady or not, it is the way things are.
Smitty500 writes:
You could say that sure the world moral code should have been observed but then it just says that the guy with the biggest stick should impose moral order.
Again, 'should' is irrelevant. Society imposes its own morals, those in control enforce the law. If the law and morals are in agreement then most people are happy, if not... well unhappy people eventually lash out at those that are making them unhappy.

Freedom, morality, and the human dignity of the individual consists precisely in
this; that he does good not because he is forced to do so, but because he freely
conceives it, wants it, and loves it.
- Mikhail Bakunin, God and the State, from The Columbian Dictionary of Quotations

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by Smitty500, posted 02-19-2004 9:57 PM Smitty500 has not replied

  
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