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Author Topic:   Book of Job -- Little help here
ramoss
Member (Idle past 640 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 47 of 61 (233960)
08-17-2005 8:13 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by Tal
08-16-2005 1:59 PM


You don't understand what that Tanakh is when it comes to the Jewish faith. The tanakh is the story of a people's search for God, and an example of how even people who are flawed can find sanctity in God. It also is some rules to follow to help bring people closer to god.
One of those rules is 'NO HUMAN SACRIFICE'. This was demonstrated by Abraham, when the ram was provided instead of Issac. That was considered a promise from god never to require a human sacrifice ever again. That makes the concept of "Jesus was a sacrifice for our sins" against what the Jewish faith believes about God.
It's not a free gift if you have to give up everything you believe in to accept it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Tal, posted 08-16-2005 1:59 PM Tal has replied

Replies to this message:
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ramoss
Member (Idle past 640 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 48 of 61 (233962)
08-17-2005 8:22 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by Tal
08-16-2005 9:27 AM


Re: questions.
In the Jewish religion (the religion that actually included Job inthe bible), Shaitan (Or the accuser), does not actually have free will (None of the angels do). THat means that everything that satan does is by the will of god.
What is satan's job? He is sort of an imp of the perverse, to give bad choices to mankind. By having bad choices, that allows man to be able to make GOOD choices, and thereby lead a more sanctified life.
More information about Satan, and his relationship to god and man can be found in the Jewish commentary about the book of Job at http://www.torah.org/learning/iyov/archives.html

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ramoss
Member (Idle past 640 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 49 of 61 (233970)
08-17-2005 8:49 AM
Reply to: Message 43 by randman
08-17-2005 12:58 AM


Re: one can always doubt
You claim that dismissing 'spirituality' as a biological function is biasness, and for 'evidence' of that, you offer up a book written beween 2600 to 2000 years ago.
So, we investigate how sight works, we investigate how touch , and smell work. Why must you insist that feeling spiritual is MORE than than? Why should we not investigate why there is spiritality, and how it functions? Because a book written 100 generations ago says we are born with it?

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ramoss
Member (Idle past 640 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 59 of 61 (234208)
08-17-2005 5:53 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by arachnophilia
08-17-2005 4:36 PM


Re: jesus's sacrfice
No, it most certainly did not follow the guildlines. Even if the rituals were proper (which they weren't), and you ignore the fact of it being the very much forbidden human sacrifice, there still is the issue of the imposition of someone else to take your sins. While it does mimic the old traditions scape goat and the sacrifical goat, rolled up into one, it gets away from the concept that people are responsible for their own sins, and of the proper atonement needed. In the Jewish religion it is an on going process, and part of it is a change in behavior.

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 Message 56 by arachnophilia, posted 08-17-2005 4:36 PM arachnophilia has not replied

  
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