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Author Topic:   Where does it say in the bible that the Universe is only 6,000 years old?
PaulK
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Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 46 of 114 (108787)
05-17-2004 10:23 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by Sylas
05-17-2004 9:59 AM


Re: The events of the fourth day in Genesis.
I would personally add that Genesis 1:5 is quite clear that the "light" created in Genesis 1:3 is "day". It seems to me that the writer did not realise that daylight all originated from the sun and so described God creating the day/night cycle in Genesis 1:3-5 with the sun created later.
Such an interpretation makes sense of God seperating the light and darkness (Genesis 1:4) and the description of the Sun being made to "rule" the day (Genesis 1:16).
If Genesis 1:3 refers to the actual creation of the Sun (although the Sun is not mentioned) what does Genesis 1:4 mean when it talks of seperating light from darkness ?

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 Message 45 by Sylas, posted 05-17-2004 9:59 AM Sylas has not replied

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 Message 50 by Rick Rose, posted 05-17-2004 3:20 PM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17828
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 54 of 114 (108891)
05-17-2004 7:08 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by Rick Rose
05-17-2004 3:20 PM


Re: The events of the fourth day in Genesis.
Since heaven is not created until Genesis 1:6-8 at the end of the second day and earth is not created until Genesis 1:9-10 at the beginning of the third day any interpretation that has them created earlier is a plain contradiction. Therefore Sylas' interpretation that this represents a summary of the story given in Genesis 1:2-2:3 is in agreement with the text.
Perhaps you would like to answer my question of what it could mean to "seperate" the light from the darkness if the creation of light refers to the creation of the Sun.

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 Message 50 by Rick Rose, posted 05-17-2004 3:20 PM Rick Rose has replied

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 Message 57 by Rick Rose, posted 05-17-2004 10:46 PM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17828
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 67 of 114 (108973)
05-18-2004 3:26 AM
Reply to: Message 57 by Rick Rose
05-17-2004 10:46 PM


Re: The events of the fourth day in Genesis.
I have read post 56 and later posts. I note that you are not engaging with the fact that Genesis 1 has explicit mentions of the creation of both Heaven and Earth. It is quite clear that you are trying to fit Genesis 1 to a modern understanding - and placing textual considerations secondary to that task.

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 Message 68 by cromwell, posted 05-18-2004 7:04 AM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
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Posts: 17828
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 69 of 114 (108983)
05-18-2004 7:29 AM
Reply to: Message 68 by cromwell
05-18-2004 7:04 AM


Re: The events of the fourth day in Genesis.
It is clear that his analysis rests heavily on his choice of translation (many do not link the two verses in the way that the NIV does). It is clear also that it is based on reading current knowledge into Genesis. It is also clear that he is the one taking individual verses out of context.
His analysis has yet to even consider Genesis 1:4, nor does he offer any basis for assuming that the sun was created prior to the first day other than that it is reasonable given what we know now.

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 Message 70 by cromwell, posted 05-18-2004 10:10 AM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
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Posts: 17828
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 71 of 114 (109009)
05-18-2004 10:28 AM
Reply to: Message 70 by cromwell
05-18-2004 10:10 AM


Re: The events of the fourth day in Genesis.
The bible clearly gives the sense that the Sun and accompanying stars were created at Genesis 1:1
I absolutely disagree with this. Please provided evidence *from the text* to support your claim.
I have already explained that I reject the idea that Genesis 1:1 refers to events prior to the first day which renders your argument moot. Even so it is clearly based not on the text but on current scientific knowledge. The very nature of your argument proves that your claim is false. If the Bible clearly gave such a sense then you would be arguing from the Bible - not ignoring inconvenient verses like Genesis 1:4 (which is hard to forgive in someone so keen to accuse others of taking verses out of context).

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PaulK
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Posts: 17828
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 78 of 114 (109055)
05-18-2004 3:08 PM
Reply to: Message 73 by Rick Rose
05-18-2004 1:29 PM


Re: Less to it than meets the eye.
The science of mathematical probability offers striking proof that the Genesis creation account must have come from a source with knowledge of the events. The account lists 10 major stages in this order: (1) a beginning; (2) a primitive earth in darkness and enshrouded in heavy gases and water; (3) light; (4) an expanse or atmosphere; (5) large areas of dry land; (6) land plants; (7) sun, moon and stars discernible in the expanse, and seasons beginning; (8) sea monsters and flying creatures; (9) wild and tame beasts, mammals; (10) man. Science agrees that these stages occurred in this general order. What are the chances that the writer of Genesis just guessed this order? The same as if you picked at random the numbers 1 to 10 from a box, and drew them in consecutive order. The chances of doing this on your first try are 1 in 3,628,800! So, to say the writer just happened to list the foregoing events in the right order without getting the facts from somewhere is not realistic. -- Life - How Did It Get Here? By evolution or by creation?
This has been brought up before.
I note that the probability calculation assumes that the author lacks the intelligence to put the stages in a remotely sensible order. Perhaps you can be the first to explain why we should assume that the autot lacked the wits to put the beginning first ?
Perhaps you can also explain which verse makes explicit reference to "heavy gasses". Or explain why if the atmosphere exists at the second step it is supposedly created at the fourth.
Perhaps you can also explain the evidence that "land plants" preceded the visibility of the sun.
And maybe you'd like to consider that the impression developed from Genesis does not match reality. The "land plants" include fruit trees - a definite latecomer. The flying things are referred to using a word which includes bats - which came after mammals. The "sea monsters" are likewise often taken as including whales. And surely "large areas of dry land" should come before water (since when there was little or no liquid water, the land must be dry).

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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17828
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 99 of 114 (109856)
05-22-2004 7:58 AM
Reply to: Message 97 by cromwell
05-22-2004 7:41 AM


Re: The events of the fourth day in Genesis.
I've got a question. Where in Genesis does it say that the creation of light and the sun refer merely to the appearance of these things on Earth due to changing conditions in the atmosphere.
Why should we not take the verses at face value instead ?
(And no, it is not enough to argue that our current knowledge would show Genesis to be false if we did so).

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