Sex and Sin

I was having a recent conversation recently about sex and morality, during the conversation we began to talk about sex as a sin. Then it occured to me that Christianity, and other related religions, seem to be incredibly preocupied with sex, sexual behavior, and sexuality. Not only this, but sex, in general, seems to be viewd by these belief systems in a negative light.This is a rather broad question, and I hope it dosn't seem like I am passing the buck, but I really would love to hear some of your ideas as to why sex is such a christian preocupation? Especially as to why it seems to be viewd as such an evil thing.Personaly, I think it has to do with guilt. I think christianity generaly teaches, if it feels good, your probably doing something wrong That's horribly simplistic, and I apologize. But seriously folks? Why is this the case?

Hey Nosey, That sounds like an interesting book!I just recently finished reading Microcosmos by Margolis(sp), it was fascinating. I understand she has a book on the evolution of sexuality as well, I'm gonna check that out one day .In any case, on the topic at hand.I know many pagan religions had sexual belifes, but I think christianity is distinct as viewing sexuality as a predominantly negative thing. Despite the roots of this belife however, how did the negativity come into the picture?Romans embraced sex, as did the greeks, Celts, Hindus, Shinto, etc. It seems that christianity sticks out amongst these as having a "sex is bad" atitude. Maybe it's just the fundamentalists [This message has been edited by Yaro, 11-24-2003]

Hey Apostolos,Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. Deuteronomy and Leviticus are big books, so I googled up some chapter refrences. Please supply any you may have in mind.In any case, I concentrated on Deuteronomy 22 where it has the bulk of sexual morality laws etc.Many of them concern themselves with female virginity. And how if she is found not to be a virgin when married, the man can rightfully divorce, if a man has sex with a virgin, he must marry her, etc.Yet, none of these verses concern themselves with male virginity. I think my question would be where did the doctrine of "specific circumstances" arise?It seems that the bible makes no specific prohebition of the following:Males needing to keep their virginity.
Explicit prohebition of sex before marrige.
Explicit prohebitions about masturbation.Yet these three things are regularly proclaimed as abominable by many christians. What are the supposed biblical supports for this?It is my view, that the laws regarding these things, are at worst based on the ignorance of the times, and at best horribly outdated relics of a mysoginistic culture. Just as we don't bring the sheets of a newly wed to the village elder, or stone people to death, shoulden't the prohebition of pre-merital sex be viewd as outdated? After all we do have effective contraception, and education to deal with these things. And virginity is truely a meaningless concept to begin with.What are your views on this?[This message has been edited by Yaro, 11-25-2003]

Hey Apostolos,Sorry, I don't mean to drag you away from other topics, and I don't mind if you take a long time before adressing the discussion here. If others would like to chime in, it's of course welcome as well.Ill start with your last statement and work up: I think haveing a pre-merital sexual relationship, and 'slumming around' are two diffrent things all together. I would agree with you here, I think trivializing sex, and being loose about who you give it to is never a good thing.However, what about a monogumus, and commited relationship between a loving cuple who may not feel it's time to get married, if at all?Generaly, what about people who have genuine feelings for each other, and share physical intemacy at that level? I personaly see nothing wrong with this, which is why I view the biblical ideas concerning virginity as outdated.Today we have contraception, sex education, among other facilities. If you raise your child well, and teach him the meaning of sex, love, respect, etc. What's the harm if that person wants to share his sexuality with someone he cares deeply about?With regards to the biblical concept of virginity, especialy in the OT, it seems to concentrate solely on female virginity. All of the laws revolve around females, proving their virginity, what to do about losing it.The OT also, speaks of slave girls, kings and their concubines, and handmaidens, capturing virgins, etc. etc. This clearly speaks of a culture who valued a woman based on her virginity, and little else.With regard to men, I have yet to find the verse regarding how they should remain virgins. It seems to be mute on this, in places it seems to imply a double standard. Seeing as how polygamy was alowed and so on. Well, many pagan religions were indeed much more liberal when it came to sex, yet that does not mean all. Other cultures in the middle east, Africa, and Asia have similar concepts.Im sure you are familiar with the horror of FMG (female genital mutilation), without going on a tangent, many of the cultures who practice this do so on tge assumption that it will keep their women faithfull. Again, the same double standard often seen in these mysogonistic, patriarchal societies.Hearing these peoples rational, and reading the levitacal laws, I can't help but see a parallel. I could post some speciffic refrences if you like.The above covers, male virginity, and pre-marital sex. With regards to the other issue, Masturbation. I remember being told this was sinfull back in christian school, and being 13 and figuring out for the first time was a wierd experience. I didn't know whether to feel guilty about it or not. Till I found out everyone did it, then realized, after reading a medical textbook, that it was perfectly normal.So how can something like this be sinfull? Something all humans, and many animals, engage in at one time or another. Is there a biblical root?

Hey Lizard Breath,I really didn't mean to set the conversation on a hostile tone at all. My apologies, I really am simply trying to find the biblical root of christianities views on sexuality. I was mearly pointing out that the biblical laws don't seem to apply to men, and indeed seem to promote men having multiple partners. Here is your first problem, if your looking at sex and relationships like buying a car, your already takeing the wrong aproach. Either you love someone or you dont, this has nothing to do with sex, shopping before you buy. Relationships are organic, they are not a test drive. It has to do with mutual attraction, and deep feelings of comrodary and oneness. If your takeing girls (or boys) out for test drives, of any sort, I think your setting yourself up for disapointment. Now, I don't know about some peoples attitudes tword sex, but how on earth could that be the most special thing they have to offer? It's just sex. Something which is meaningless without love and emotion.I would surely hope that marrige isn't a sexual contract, or some sort of analgesic for your insecurities as you assert in your next paragraph: What kind of attitude is this? What kind of caring, loving couple, would put this much stock in sexulaity, let alone play comparisons? We aren't shopping for the best price in soup here, we are talking about love.back up a bit: I don't think I was promoting this attitude, and I don't think anyone seriously does. Sex between loving partners, is a serious thing. I am mearly proposing that the idea of virginity, and pre-merital sex is outdated.It is perfectly possible, if you are an individual of some moral character, to have sex outside of marrige and not be "pluging every skeezer". I see nothing wrong about people who want to share their sexuality, under genuine circustances, doing so. I don't see the need for the guilt.You seem to think that everyone who has sex outside of marrige, is promoting some sort of 'cavalier' attitude about humpping everything that moves. The fact is, most people have sex because they actually care about the person they are with, and it provides an outlet for their intemacy. I don't understand this, virgin or not, if your gonna mary someone, sex should not be priority one, cuz one day your both gonna be old and nasty And if you love each other, and things are wonderfull, sex will be great. Anyone who has ever had a serious relationship knows this. Wow! That's a big assumption about me. I have had very few relationships, some sexual, some not. All of them were serious, and wonderfull in their own way. None of my Ex's hate me, and I still keep in touch with a few. And guess what? I'm engaged. LOL! What? I got plenty of love friend, and it keeps springing fourth .Seriously, I don't know where you get this idea from. Again, NOT EVERYONE WHO HAS SEX OUT OF WEDDLOCK, IS "PLUGGING EVERY SKEEZER". If you are the kind of person that does that, then you have personal problems that range outside of your sexual habits. I think you are makeing big assumptions about my lifestyle, not to mention the lifestyle of everyone else who dosn't belive in abstinance. None the less, to get back on topic. Where is the biblical backup for these belifes?And what about that pesky masturbation thing?

Hey, thanks alot, I apreciate it.I have no doubts that we will have happy lives together. Shes still in college, but when she graduates we will be moving in together, then we will tie the proverbial knot. I dunno, I just know it's for keeps, we love each other much too much.

But lizard breath started it!!! hehe... ya I agree.Anyway, I looked up the end of genisis 3 and didn't find the reference concerning being made one flesh etc. If you could quote exactly what you mean, I would apreciate it.And I agree that things should apply to "God's deffinition", which is ultimately what I am trying to get at. I do not think the bible actually defines anything about male abstinance, or masturbation. In this whole thread I have yet recived a biblical quote that says any of these things.If you, or anyone, can provide direct reference to where in the bible it says Males as well as Females should remain virgins because of the reasons stated above (the bit about the emotional well runing dry, the sacred bond of husband and wife, etc. etc.), I would be much obliged to hear it!I would also like to understand the scriptoral basis for the masturbation taboo. I want to look at both these things from a biblical stand point, using direct reference. I have yet to find this.Anyone?[This message has been edited by Yaro, 11-26-2003]

Hey, thanks Lizard Breath! Allways nice to get some practical advice from someone who has been there already. We are planing to have a simple wedding, and indeed a nice honeymoon.But first, before all of that, I gotta find a decent job! Being a recent college grad ain't allways the easiest starting point in the workforce, especialy in the current ecconomy.