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Author Topic:   What if Satan reformed?
Philip
Member (Idle past 4752 days)
Posts: 656
From: Albertville, AL, USA
Joined: 03-10-2002


Message 78 of 234 (348964)
09-13-2006 11:38 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Archer Opteryx
08-18-2006 5:02 PM


The Gospel of Grace Necessitates the Devil
Christians believe in a literal Satan
My shoddy understanding is that scriptures really do behoove us to address and sincerely confess our dark-side and (my) deadly demons:
Satan, Death, Hell, the Beast and False Prophet, sin, and self etc. are all real agendas that (as Phat aptly quoted regarding the Satan) are incapable of doing good, incapable of truth, just "vessels of wrath" (Romans, KJV), etc.
Now, the holy battle going on in my soul, where God’s grace (ultimately) saves me from my sins by a lowly Redeemer’s bloody annihilation (3 days and 3 nights in the heart of the earth) and about 2/3rds of classical fundy-hymns . address us all as “ensnared souls” in need of Salvation, Restoration, Redemption, new-life, new-beginnings, 2nd chances, forgiveness, greater resurrection, orchestrational dancing, symphonies, etc.
The whole idea of Evil incarnate flipoly repenting seems jesting, insulting, oxymoronic, vanity, vexation, ignorance, deception, and a real trailer-trash-topic. I propose you sincerely drop this foolish debate and have a little respect for the “hope of the gentiles”

DISCLAIMER: No representation is made that the quality of scientific and metaphysical statements written is greater than the quality of those statements written by anyone else.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Archer Opteryx, posted 08-18-2006 5:02 PM Archer Opteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by Archer Opteryx, posted 09-14-2006 1:15 AM Philip has not replied

  
Philip
Member (Idle past 4752 days)
Posts: 656
From: Albertville, AL, USA
Joined: 03-10-2002


Message 103 of 234 (349884)
09-17-2006 11:11 PM
Reply to: Message 102 by ringo
09-15-2006 8:11 PM


Re: The Gospel of Grace Necessitates the Devil
Ringo writes:
"WHAT IF Satan reformed?"
1) Impossible from a *predestinarian* view;
(Again according to Joh 8:44) ... He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because THERE IS NO TRUTH IN HIM. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Mat 25:41 . everlasting fire PREPARED for the devil and his angels .
Romans 8: Vessels of wrath fitted for destruction
Etc.
2) Impossible from a free-will view:
Can a leopard lose its spots (Jer 13.23) . then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.
Notwithstanding other scriptures seem (to me) to explicitly decree Satan’s torment as an ”absolute’ reality in real time. Holy Scriptures never let up on this premise of Satan skipping judgment.
The fallacy of fallacies of this “WHAT IF” hypothesis is that science and scriptures (and let me guess the Koran also) all reject the hypothesis as untenable.
3) Impossible from a science view:
What if corn became peanut butter? Well whose corn is it in the beginning?
What if quarks spontaneously became man? Whose quarks are they to begin with?
Etc.
In sum, do you really want a cursed-loser like me doting on “what if” hypotheses about the Devil/evil becoming God/good? What about vice-versa? Etc. What about a Christ’s redeeming sufferings, death, burial, resurrection, and ascension becoming my personal restoration from the devil, sin, and the curse? Should I (a puny confused one) flippantly postulate the devils, death, and hell NOT being cast into the lake of fire (Rev 21,22)?
Or take doctrine of the Gospel of grace and hypothetically replace each reference to “man” with “the devil”: I.e., For God so loved *THE DEVIL* that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believeth on Him should not perish .

DISCLAIMER: No representation is made that the quality of scientific and metaphysical statements written is greater than the quality of those statements written by anyone else.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by ringo, posted 09-15-2006 8:11 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by ringo, posted 09-18-2006 2:23 AM Philip has not replied

  
Philip
Member (Idle past 4752 days)
Posts: 656
From: Albertville, AL, USA
Joined: 03-10-2002


Message 122 of 234 (350894)
09-21-2006 1:00 AM
Reply to: Message 121 by ReverendDG
09-20-2006 8:15 PM


Re: The Gospel of Grace Necessitates the Devil
AdminJar writes:
Stop this. Head back towards the topic. It is "What if Satan reformed?"
From a fundyish-viewpoint: Satan's reformaton would seem equivalent to his being *taken out* of the picture or erased from existence.
If Satan *reformed*: No need for prayer, atonement, reconciliation, forgiveness, salvation, justice, eternal punishment, etc. since sin and evil would be erased from existence. (This is debatable by many fundies who believe in a literal 1000 years SANS Satan)
If Satan reformed: No more cosmic-curse: The 2nd Law of Thermo might not exist: Beneficial mutation (macro-evolution) might actually become *tenable hypothesis* for a change.
If Satan reformed: Everyone would raise from the dead, the kindom of heaven would be complete on earth ... no more sorrows and pain ... at all ... we'd be stuck with the "Gospel of the Kingdom" SANS "the Gospel of Grace" (another dispensation)
... Satan, Death, and *Hell* would still be cast into the Lake of Fire because these 3 angels can't really be erased, just damned. Their legacy of sorrow and pain far exceeds the means and methods of reformation. The cross of Christ could never redeem Satan nor angelic aliens, whether good or evil (by definition, Christ only assimilates human sins (2Cor5.13), only eternal judgement of hellfire could make possible Satan's existence to begin with (if God were ominpresent).
... The Eternal Lamb of God may assimilate my abominable crimes against the Majesty of Holiness (the LORD) and give me repentence, rebirth, remission, restoration, and eternal life, etc...
If Satan reformed it would be caused by a valid Redeemer paying for and bailing out the devil and his damnation, anyway ... the Lamb of God would have had to assimilate Satan and all his anti-Christ agendas, the Lake of Fire, and all demons that befit this fearful cherub
... all this eternally and divinely planned-out first ... before giving Satan any good inclination of God's grace to validate any *reformation*.
Respectfully to all, I propose this topic is become quite invalidated and should be closed.

DISCLAIMER: No representation is made that the quality of scientific and metaphysical statements written is greater than the quality of those statements written by anyone else.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by ReverendDG, posted 09-20-2006 8:15 PM ReverendDG has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 123 by Archer Opteryx, posted 09-21-2006 1:24 AM Philip has not replied

  
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