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Author Topic:   Humanity's Stuggle With Death.
Michael
Member (Idle past 4667 days)
Posts: 199
From: USA
Joined: 05-14-2005


Message 13 of 104 (280784)
01-22-2006 5:31 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by joshua221
01-22-2006 5:03 PM


my opinion
All of these feelings are then, fleeting?
I think you are asking: "will these feelings exist for me after I die?" I have no reason to believe that they will.
Are these wonderful feelings that you have described limited to the life we live on earth? Will they someday not be with us?
So it seems. After death, nothing.
Life is so great, but without eternity, it's greatness is only temporary.
For any single one of us, yes. I believe that others will go on experiencing and loving life after I am gone.
how can something so special become forgotten?
There will be others still living after you, to continue to experience. You just won't be around to know it. For some, that may sound bleak. I don't find it so.
Cheers.
*very minor edit made
This message has been edited by Michael, 01-22-2006 05:40 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by joshua221, posted 01-22-2006 5:03 PM joshua221 has not replied

  
Michael
Member (Idle past 4667 days)
Posts: 199
From: USA
Joined: 05-14-2005


Message 44 of 104 (281037)
01-23-2006 6:00 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by joshua221
01-23-2006 3:37 PM


rebuttal to humans as special
Basically I see passed what I see. There is more than what we see physically, and it is vastly more important.
Though not perfectly so, I tend to be a skeptic by nature. I see no reason to believe in things beyond those that can be observed (directly or indirectly).
But we are so special that to compare us to an animal like an elephant is ludacris.
As Jar has pointed out, this is arrogant.
Once you realize that your spirit, your soul, your relationship with God is the only thing that matters, then you will know why I cannot equate humans to elephants, and why mankind is seperate from nature.
I have no belief in your god. Humans and elephants share many properties. Humans and chimpanzees share even more. We are not that special.
It's rather degrading, and with scientific evolution comes ideas that degrade what humanity really is.
Evolution is the best thing we have going to understand how humans fit with respect to other living things.
We are not part of nature. And our lives are eternal. They don't end when we die. Physical death is simply the beginning.
1) Wrong; 2) no evidence for that; 3) no evidence for that; 4) no evidence for that.
And the only evidence I have for what I believe is what I have experienced in life,
I have experienced life as well, and have different ideas.
It simply can't end here. How could it?
I am not following your logic.
Cheers.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by joshua221, posted 01-23-2006 3:37 PM joshua221 has not replied

  
Michael
Member (Idle past 4667 days)
Posts: 199
From: USA
Joined: 05-14-2005


Message 68 of 104 (283481)
02-02-2006 4:49 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by joshua221
02-02-2006 4:32 PM


Minor Transcendance through discussions with God, has given me belief in the afterlife. By discussions with God, I mean my everyday experiences, because that is I think, how God has recently decided to talk to me. With a foundation in the Christian philosophy, and in fundamentally taking every word of the Bible as truth, I have realized that to not believe in an afterlife is a disapointment, it is a tradgedy.
Keep believing, and keep talking with your god. But know that those of us who do not hold to Christian philosophies may disagree with you mightily.
There is absolutely no disappointment in not believing in an afterlife, and no tragedy.
To reason away truth with skills that we have developed on this planet to strive to understand what this planet is physically is truly a dishonor to what we had known.
Okay, a couple of big problems here, but it seems you are about through with the topic. I will leave it unless you want to go on.
How could I reject faith for what made sense to me at the moment, when what I had faith in was so much more beautiful, and resonated truth loud and clear?
If faith makes life easier for you, then, in my opinion, you shouldn't reject it. Just be tolerant of others with different beliefs.
I think it's time for me to venture beyond this.
Happy sailing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by joshua221, posted 02-02-2006 4:32 PM joshua221 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by joshua221, posted 02-02-2006 9:17 PM Michael has replied

  
Michael
Member (Idle past 4667 days)
Posts: 199
From: USA
Joined: 05-14-2005


Message 71 of 104 (283716)
02-03-2006 7:22 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by joshua221
02-02-2006 9:17 PM


this agnostic's view on faith, in brief
It is not easier, vastly harder to live with faith, because I find myself questioning myself.
I very much hope that you are able to reconcile your faith with your questions. I believe that, for some, faith can be very rewarding. It seems to me that those who can question are those most comfortable with faith. Those who can't come off as angry and defensive; their experience with faith doesn't seem to be very positive at all.
Cheers.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by joshua221, posted 02-02-2006 9:17 PM joshua221 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by robinrohan, posted 02-03-2006 7:46 PM Michael has replied

  
Michael
Member (Idle past 4667 days)
Posts: 199
From: USA
Joined: 05-14-2005


Message 89 of 104 (285852)
02-11-2006 4:00 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by robinrohan
02-03-2006 7:46 PM


Why does truth matter (in this context)?
I believe that, for some, faith can be very rewarding.
Rewarding?
The only thing that matters is whether what they believe is true or not.
I'm not sure--it seems to me that you may be playing the devil's advocate. If so, fine, I'll play along. My apologies if I am wrong.
I have struggled with the following question for a fair bit of time: do the faithful really believe? Or is whatever need that faith fills for them so great that they have to believe? I hope the distinction is clear. Maybe this has been discussed elsewhere.
I think that the faithful are compelled to believe by a need. I can see no other reason why otherwise rational people (in some cases, at least) can accept the fantasy of their faith, in spite overwhelming contradictory evidence (except for the more liberal of the faithful--not sure how to work them in yet--my model may be too simple). If the need is so great that they can maintain the fantasy, I have to believe that their belief is rewarding to them. Otherwise, why believe? If they are gaining something by their belief, who am I to convince them that they are wrong? Hell, I could be wrong (about 1 in a googleplex chance, I think).
The problem with faith comes when its adherents try to push their ideas/philosophies onto the people around them. I have no patience with that. Otherwise, as long as they are doing no harm due to their faith, I don't care what they believe. But if asked, I will give my opinion.
Maybe this discussion should go to another topic.
Cheers.*
*abe
This message has been edited by Michael, 02-11-2006 04:09 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by robinrohan, posted 02-03-2006 7:46 PM robinrohan has not replied

  
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