Faith by Definition

Hi Phat, I'm a bit late here and am referring back to your first post. Looking at the above quotes, are you putting faith (confidence) in a personal experience that is supported by the bible? If so, would you care to elaborate on this experience?Edited by AdminPhat, : fixed quote

I had the experience of being saved from the ridiculous ideas put forward of god, jesus and the bible. The faith begins with oneself to make up one's own mind.

Thanks, I find it very interesting. I take it that all the experiences leading up to your catharsis played a vital role in creating a new and wonderful experience. I have no doubt this is true. I believe the human race is opening up towards new experiences. To begin creating anew instead of re-creating the old.What still puzzles me is why you attribute this to god? Your final words of 'or be he an internal emotional construct' are far closer to the mark. I have concluded within my own experiences that I am not convinced there is a god but I am convinced we can create one of our own imaginings.

I am not disputing what you say. Of course you cannot prove it is god and I cannot prove it is not. I certainly believe you had the experience but why do you believe it to be with god? Where was god during this experience? Did god speak to you? Did you see an image of god? You don't actually mention god until you draw your conclusion.Everything you describe is from within you. Physically, mentally and emotionally. You created it. You experienced it and you gave meaning to it. So why cannot this experience be totally down to you?

Don't you think that it is possible that god had nothing to do with your experience and that you, amongst many others, are beginning to discover there is much more to the human potential than we have ever dreamed of?

thanks Phat, this is an excellent post. I believe I understand the knowing of an 'other' being present within. I have also experienced this in the form of answers and insights that I could not have known. However, my experiences come from painful emotions, so who or what would the 'other' be in my case? The devil maybe?I think you are right in saying I do not want god as a crutch but on the other hand I would accept an honest, open, equal relationship with a god. Unfortuneately, the biblical god does not fit the bill and I cannot accept anything less. All or nothing but I haven't decided which yet. It's a work in progress.The two world views are fascinating. Could they both be correct? It could be a domino effect rather than a collision. Wouldn't it be interesting if the evil dynamic personality kicked the butts and the humans had no choice but to become dynamic personalities in their own right? Would you save yourself or rely on god to save you?

Nator, I am trying to see your point of view here but you don't seem to have one.

And what is a 'real spiritual' experience?

"My point is that Phat can't tell the difference between a "real" spiritual experience and one that was imagined by him."Nator, you didn't answer the question.

"I don't know what a real spiritual experience is, or if such a thing even exists.
I thought that was abundantly clear in my last two replies to you, but I hope it is now."If you don't know then how can you dispute Phat's experience?

It is choice whether you believe or not. It cannot be proved either way. I choose to believe the experience as described and that it has had a profound affect on his life.

I am posting this message to the originator of each thread in which I have participated. I apologize to those I have not been able to respond to. Living a double life (see below) even on a forum is very time consuming. I have had a wonderful experience and aplogize for my deceitful behaviour. I prefer to judge myself and implement the consequences myself. I prefer to be my own judge and jury. In this case the punishment is a life time ban. I will retire DAMEEVA as from 1.2.08 (just to give myself time to pack my bags) unless a higher authority decides otherwise, in which case authority has the final say.I have thoroughly enjoyed this forum and have learned a lot that otherwise I would not.