Who won the Collins-Dawkins Debate?

Only an omniscient being can make such a claim.How do you know it is not possible to meet Him?The only thing more suspicious than an absolute positive, is an absolute negative. Well, you sure seem eager to determine that!

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Matthew 10:26 "So do not be afraid of them. There is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known.

Anglagard, that was not my point.I didn't say anything about people claiming to be God in my point. That is much different than claiming to know God.It was about whether it is possible or not to know that God exists.jar said we cannot know. Maybe it is not possible... But we cannot make an absolute negation.But addressing your assertion in good faith, how do you even know that someone cannot prove they are God?What would they have to do to prove that they are? It's a great question. I'll propose a new thread...

Well, I don't believe I will ever be a god until I have shed this body and am ressurected anew. Maybe you should ask a pantheist these questions.

Patience please...No, we become part of God. A stone in the body of Christ. A jewel of the temple so to speak. We don't become God so much as let God become us; an individual, distinct, unique and prescious as each of us is, yet at one with God's will. We get to be the real you and me, instead of the fallen and depraved men we are now.C.S. Lewis covers it well in his chapter, 'Obstinate Toy Soldiers'. I don't think any pantheist really wants that debate, and that is interesting. I think it is a hit to them. It was to me... I am satisfied to let it stand there un-opposed and unpromoted. it speaks for itself. It's not my work or my genius. It is the genius that conquered my hard heart and shallow mind.Phat is trying to keep the peace (he is conflicted), but his Lord did not come to bring peace. His Lord came to expose the darkness for what it is without fear. Even at the risk of being beaten or crucified. And He asks his disciple to be the light of the world even unto persecution and death. And warned us not to befriend those who only work to keep the light from being shined full strength. Oh how they would love to pretend it does not exist. You can preach anything but that! Keep it contained within the scientific method so as not to expose us...Matthew 10:34 "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn "'a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law-- 36 a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.'There can only be one way for man to have peace, and that is assuming that peace is one of the real purposes of the universe to begin with. We must assume that that is true or we are seeking what cannot be found. Justice, mercy, and faithfulness are either realties or they are not. We can't make them so, if in reality we are only unjust and merciful beasts.I have never tried to derail any thread. I only try to bring into focus what I think the real answer to these questions is. When I see Christianity misrepresented as is so common at this forum, I try to explain why it is incorrect. I do the best I can without excuse or apologies. It demands more of me than you can know... All my energy and thought. My whole soul!I try to be a light as best I can (even if only a dimwit). Everyone is looking for the same thing, but so many are trying to find it by some way that will avoid the moral dimension that Christianity boldy and unyieldingly demands of us. They hope that reality is not Christianty.Does such a way exist? Can it be true? We sure try desperately to find one; empire after empire. Tower after tower comes tumbling down.Christ is a glaring light and it will not be put out. The only options are to yeild to it some, and carefully reconsider, or crucify it. But when we crucify it, we draw more attention to it than if we had left it alone. We then become what we hate most. And that is the most common way for God to reveal Himself. We get a glimpse of Him, when we see our own depravity. Our illusions are dispelled very much by force. if it were up to us, we would keep them. But he makes us self aware...The light has us surrounded. The only alternative is to deny it with full knowledge that we are doing so, and very few can actually do such a thing. I couldn't, and I tried even harder than some of you. Even the most obstinate among us still has some light that he cannot deny.I can live with being challenged severely, threatened, and mocked. I can defend myself with God' word. I can even handle being suspended or expelled from this place.The question is, can you?I fear not examining myself and my beliefs. And in the process of defending them, I naturally explain my position and show it to be true. Is that preaching or apologetics?And if I am thrown out into the abyss, there are thousands more waiting to remind you of your sins. Reality will stalk you, and call your bluff!Luke 12:4 "I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more. 5 But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him. 6 Are not five sparrows sold for two pennies? Yet not one of them is forgotten by God. 7 Indeed, the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Don't be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows. 8 "I tell you, whoever acknowledges me before men, the Son of Man will also acknowledge him before the angels of God. 9 But he who disowns me before men will be disowned before the angels of God. 10 And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven. 11 "When you are brought before synagogues, rulers and authorities, do not worry about how you will defend yourselves or what you will say, 12 for the Holy Spirit will teach you at that time what you should say."

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Matthew 10:26 "So do not be afraid of them. There is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known.

If I could not handle it, I would not have come back. But I can...Sneaking would be moderating my tone...
Did I moderate enough to sneak around unoticed DrJones?You spotted my sin right away. You hate sin don't you DRJones?An honest man need not sneak. I hid nothing in the first place. That is why I was suspended.Go ahead... I can handle it. The reason I was shut out, is because you can't.So preach your cynicism DrJones... your in no danger of being expelled by the cynical. Just don't preach Christ crucified. These people want to hear that science is God.But if you do, and if you are, let them expect a ressurection.Ok ok ok, it did bother me some... but I think I could handle it now. Not to mention that we just happened to change IP's at the same time...Are you happy now? Or must I be buried?Edited by scottness, : No reason given.Edited by scottness, : No reason given.

I was defending my position. Pushing an appeal. It was not harrassment, it was true and effective. it just took some time to settle in. I couldn't use the old one. It was taken from me though it was my real name, Rob (Robert Scott Lockett). What is your real name DrJones?Tell me about honesty... Missing the mark.

According to whom? Did the girlfriend get the restraining order by making a false report? If so, the boyfriend may in fact do the right thing by violating the relative laws of men. But justice is justice. it is absolute!This is fun and all Dr, but I got a bad feeling about all the replies I am getting at the moment.Toodleloo!

Because we all have a theological position. It is the foundation for our assumptions. Some are just more logical than others.

scottness writes:
'It is the foundation for our assumptions.'Larni:Oh really??? By what standard or foundation?Think about it...

Go ahead and tell them what they want to hear jar... they understand that instinctively, because it is a projection of themselves... As are you.Dish out the lies, prophesy falsely! You are a god in your own mind and that is why you do not 'give a damn' what is right, but you sure as hell want to be worshipped.Edited by scottness, : No reason given.

My hands are more than full... but feel free.

Your an interesting lot Schraf...You were no doubt reveling in my demise and being banned. Why?Before you answer, let me remind you that you asked in another thread 'what I was doing here?'. And you and others have said that my approach is ineffective. That I am just stirring the pot...Well, I as much as admitted that is true, and I did a thorough going job (IMHO) of explaining why. Are you suggesting that I should become a kindler and gentler preacher? Like the one that wrote this post: http://EvC Forum: The significance and symbolism of the sea. -->EvC Forum: The significance and symbolism of the sea.Or like the one who was banned for being off topic, because I connected the topics to their related Biblical expositions?There is no winning with lot's like yourself. So don't pretend that I did anything scandulous, when you make your intentions clear when you said:They won't! Not unless I tell them what they want to hear.And I will not!So... there is more absolutism to go round than may would like to admit.Why should anyone respect any of us?

When asked, I did not deny it. I was very keen in the way I avoided it. Wise as a serpent and innocent as a dove. When jar asked if this was just Rob once again, I said, 'whoever Rob is, he must have told you these things before'. A true statement.In fact, as DrJones became more adament that it was I... I was the one who volunteered. I said, 'it is Robert Scott Lockett to be exact'. And I then said, "Why didn't someone just come out and ask me, 'Are you Rob?'"It is not always wise to let it be known who you are. Especially if they are trying to kill you (in the internal sense).Was Jesus lying here, or do loose lips sink ships?:
Luke 4:41 Moreover, demons came out of many people, shouting, "You are the Son of God!" But he rebuked them and would not allow them to speak, because they knew he was the Christ.Now, I am obviously not the Christ (I'll leave that for the New Agers), but I was also not lying...And to exagerate, I was only '1' of about '1' persons on this forum who doesn't use an alias. Ok, maybe their are 6 total. The rest of you use aliases to avoid the light of day. Certainly your name is not Schrafinator. Your anonymity is for your own protection. So you are a liar too? [b]Oh I know... Believe me I know.../b That's the whole nature of the PC rules of men... that's the whole nature of man made law.... To keep yourself protected in your little bubble, and safe from any real challenge in a real arena of ideas. Look at the way the corrupt business men hide behind their Lawyers. It is far easier to live by rules than in truth.You demand one for others, and another for yourself. Do you obet the rules of men? No, you hate men...And now you condemn me by rules created by men? 'Piss off' Schraffinator... I am a free man! Free to tell the truth in fear of no one but God.Your illusions will be shattered Schraf. They are doomed. All who profit by them like Dawkins will morn and cry 'Oh woe! Oh great city'!All of the mysterious contradictions that any of us have ever put our hope in, will be removed by the shear force of reality playing Himself out for the cause of justice and real mercy and peace.And He is no kitten... He is no respecter of men... He is not just a lamb... He is the lion of Judah.Whether you call it spam or not. If you folks think Jesus was a passive and meek feminized man, you have not read the Bible. He was gracious to the humble, but spoke with fire against the proud. And I do my best to emulate Him so as to wake the dead.

Isn't it ironic... I was just making that point to Schraf.I don't fear being public. Any harm to me will only further the cause of Christ. What ever I said that has been ignored and is effective for the purpose of the Gospel would become widely read.I am going to die anyway someday... No need to fear it!Didn't any of you see Braveheart?'They may take our lives, but they will never take our FREEDOM.'Luke 12:4 "I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more. 5 But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him.Dawkins is just a man...Edited by Rob, : No reason given.

Why? what is your agenda?'Ah, what's the use? Have it your way...'If you ever change your mind, you can give up your time, for [b]His/b eternity.It may seem like your way is good now, but ultimately you don't want to keep what is yours forever... You must let go of it or it will become your prison. Do not try to master it.Now is but a moment...