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Author Topic:   Is Genesis to be taken literally Part II
jjburklo
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 105 (187218)
02-21-2005 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by jar
02-02-2005 12:46 PM


While there is nothing in Genesis that specifically says there was
quote:
no death before the "Fall", it does strongly imply that there WAS death before the "Fall". In fact, the reason that GOD chased Adam and (St)Eve out of the Garden of Eden was not because they disobeyed him and ate from the Tree of Knowledge, but from the fear that they would eat from the Tree of Life.
Terry's claim simply does not stand up to even a cursory examination of Genesis. If there was no death then there would be no need for the Tree of Life nor would GOD have feared them eating from it.
Ok lets think about this. I've heard this claim several times about this verse, Gen 3-22-24, that b/c God feared them becoming immortal at this point there must have been death before the fall. Well no this is not at all the case
Let's examine real quickly. Originally, Adam and Eve could eat of every plant except the tree of knowledge and good and evil. If God feared, at that time, that they might eat of the tree of life he would have put the same restriction on it. Interesting that is not until after the fall that he is then fearful that they would eat of the tree of life and live forever. Hmmm, why would that be so? Maybe b/c since they fell death now entered the world and God can now fear Adam eating of the tree of life. Before the fall there was no death so there was no fear of the tree of life. After the fall, there is death and hence a fear of eating from the tree of life.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by jar, posted 02-02-2005 12:46 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by jar, posted 02-21-2005 1:25 PM jjburklo has replied
 Message 17 by PaulK, posted 02-21-2005 1:28 PM jjburklo has replied
 Message 59 by macaroniandcheese, posted 04-07-2005 1:57 PM jjburklo has not replied

  
jjburklo
Inactive Member


Message 18 of 105 (187258)
02-21-2005 4:42 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by PaulK
02-21-2005 1:28 PM


quote:
If everything was immortal what is the point of having a Tree of Life ? Does it really make sense for God to create this Tree whose only function is to undo the effects of the "Fall" and then stop it being put to that very use ?
And how do you know its exact function? Is its exact function every mentioned in the Bible? No its not. I don't know why it was created, just as there are plenty of things about God that I simply don't know, and will not know until I join Him in heaven. But its still an extremely interesting coincidence that God doesn't have a problem with Adam eating of the tree of Life until after the fall!!! Again, lets think, why would this be so? If man was mortal from the beginning then God would always have had a fear of Adam eating from the tree of life. God would have told Adam not to eat of it just like the tree of knowledge of good and evil from the beginning!
Again, I don't know the purpose of the tree of life. Regardless, of the position you take on the matter the purpose of the tree is still unclear, so it shouldn't hold any relevance. It's unclear either way.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by PaulK, posted 02-21-2005 1:28 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Brian, posted 02-21-2005 5:14 PM jjburklo has not replied
 Message 21 by PaulK, posted 02-21-2005 5:39 PM jjburklo has not replied
 Message 27 by doctrbill, posted 02-22-2005 1:33 AM jjburklo has not replied

  
jjburklo
Inactive Member


Message 19 of 105 (187260)
02-21-2005 4:45 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by jar
02-21-2005 1:25 PM


Re: A few dumb questions.
quote:
Interesting comments.
If there was no death would there be any purpose for a Tree of Life?
Is there a clear purpose if there was death? This point is irrelevant to the matter at hand.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by jar, posted 02-21-2005 1:25 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by jar, posted 02-21-2005 7:41 PM jjburklo has replied

  
jjburklo
Inactive Member


Message 23 of 105 (187316)
02-21-2005 7:52 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by jar
02-21-2005 7:41 PM


Re: A few dumb questions.
quote:
Certainly it had a clear purpose if there was death, to provide immortality. In fact that is the ONLY way it would have any purpose.
Well then under that purpose, why would God create it if in the end he takes Adam out of the Eden so that he won't gain immortality?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by jar, posted 02-21-2005 7:41 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Coragyps, posted 02-21-2005 8:04 PM jjburklo has not replied
 Message 25 by jar, posted 02-21-2005 8:05 PM jjburklo has not replied

  
jjburklo
Inactive Member


Message 29 of 105 (187510)
02-22-2005 1:57 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by contracycle
02-22-2005 6:24 AM


Re: Bring a Knife to a Gunfight
quote:
Thus the only difference between humans and god is eternal life. And that is merely a technical problem to be solved. Thus, we are very nearly gods equals, on gods own terms.
Hmm, and yet eventually he offers eternal life anyways? Wow, He's shaking in his boots. This in no way makes us equal to God. Eternal life is offered to everyone. Angels have already been created, some have fallen. They are in no way on the same level of God even though they themselves have eternal life. This is entirely incorrect theology, that is not held up in Scripture at any time!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by contracycle, posted 02-22-2005 6:24 AM contracycle has not replied

  
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