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Author Topic:   Where did God come from?
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1498 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 20 of 178 (72816)
12-14-2003 7:41 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by abdul
12-14-2003 1:57 AM


we shouldnt be discussing things like this. we humans cannot comphrehend this stuff.
What an idiotic thing to say. If we don't discuss it we'll never understand it. Discussing it gives us a chance to understand it.
[edit - ad hominem deleted.]
[This message has been edited by crashfrog, 12-15-2003]

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1498 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 94 of 178 (75667)
12-29-2003 5:58 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by One_Charred_Wing
12-29-2003 5:22 PM


Whoa now, you're saying you don't assume that people around you exist?
Did he say that? Or rather, aren't you doing exactly what he asked Grace not to do? That is, make assumptions about what he thinks. Why don'y you ask him instead of putting words in his mouth?
You mention axioms as statements you can put forth without needing to prove them. Now if that's legit, then nobody needs to argue because we don't need to prove our points.
Well, that's exactly what axioms are. Statements that are not derived but rather assumed to be true.
You don't have to play, of course. If you refuse to grant the axiom that a thing is equal to itself, for instance, then you don't have to play the math game. But the fact that math is simply so damn useful, I think, is evidence that there's some utility to be had by taking some axioms at face value. Rrhain may have another justification.
I think that's kind of a proverbial bitch-slap toward Christianity that isn't really on topic.
No, it's a crass way of pointing out the flaw in the assumption underlying Pascal's Wager - that there's only two alternatives: belief in your idea of god or atheism. The vast plurality of religious experience in the world shows that this is not so, and therefore, Pascal's Wager is insufficient justification for your religion.
(Did you all see The Mummy? And there's that weasely digger guy who releases the mummy and becomes his servant? Remember that scene where he reaches under his shirt and pulls out religious icons for every one of the major religions and starts praying in all their languages? That's what you guys look like when you invoke Pascal's Wager, because that's what Pascal's Wager is: hedging your bets with false devotion to a religion you don't really believe in. Is that sufficient justification for your faith? Somehow, I doubt it.)

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 Message 93 by One_Charred_Wing, posted 12-29-2003 5:22 PM One_Charred_Wing has not replied

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1498 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 101 of 178 (75781)
12-30-2003 5:55 AM
Reply to: Message 100 by Phat
12-30-2003 4:14 AM


I don't think anybody's critical of your beliefs. What gets our knickers in a knot is when believers say "I believe that God doesn't like this, so you can't do it, no matter what you believe."
It's not really about judgement. Judge me all you like. What it's about is freedom. Are you going to let me live my life, even if what I choose to do is against your beliefs? Can you handle me enjoying things that you abhor?
I love to talk about the potential reality of a living and personal God for the benifit of all wh listen.
Well, that's fine. If you're going to bring it up, though, be prepared to hear from everybody who found their personal relationship with God much akin to a personal relationship with a stalking, abusive partner.
Its kinda like teenagers wanting their friends to "try some of this stuff" cuz it gets you high!
It is exactly like that. Think of us atheists, therefore, as the people who are saying "yeah, it gets you high, but it eats your brain out, too."

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 Message 100 by Phat, posted 12-30-2003 4:14 AM Phat has replied

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 Message 102 by Phat, posted 12-30-2003 12:40 PM crashfrog has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1498 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 109 of 178 (75863)
12-30-2003 5:48 PM
Reply to: Message 102 by Phat
12-30-2003 12:40 PM


Bumblebees cannot fly when measured mathimatically.
Just so you know, this is a myth. Bumblebee flight has been well-understood since 1990, thanks to the work of Charles Ellington and Robert Dudley. There's absolutely nothing impossible about bumblebee flight - obviously, since they do it.

This message is a reply to:
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