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Author Topic:   Satan and prayer
Phat
Member
Posts: 18348
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 16 of 54 (141009)
09-08-2004 4:03 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Gastric ReFlux
09-08-2004 12:49 PM


Gastric ReFlux writes:
What if Satan chose to accept Jesus Christ as his personal savior?
You know the answer to that one. The usual teaching throughout church history states that Satan is already choosing NOT to acknowledge God as supreme. Humans can flipflop and change their mind, whereas Satan made a monumental Once and for all choice. This ties in with the free will vs determinism debate. God can either change minds or He cannot. By cannot, I mean willnot, for God can do whatever He wills. If our will is apart from His will, Our decision to willnot settles the issue.
This message has been edited by Phatboy, 09-08-2004 03:07 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Gastric ReFlux, posted 09-08-2004 12:49 PM Gastric ReFlux has replied

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 Message 17 by Gastric ReFlux, posted 09-08-2004 4:36 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18348
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 18 of 54 (141158)
09-09-2004 4:13 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Gastric ReFlux
09-08-2004 4:36 PM


Devil with the blue dress on......
Gastric ReFlux writes:
is it possible that Satan exists as a post hoc rationalization of why we think there is evil in this world?
OK..lets go with that one. Why ARE we so bad just when one would think that we had evolved and/or grown out of such primative behaviors??
GR writes:
Anyhow, do you figure Satan has bothered to read Revelations? It seems rather clear from those that he's gonna get his butt kicked pretty good. Yet he must think he's got some sort of chance, yet if he is an angel, it seems like he would know a lot better just how freaking omnipotent and omniscient God is, so why would he bother?
From my heresay sources, Satan is so convinced that he is right that he ignores the obvious story. To him, he will some day get his own netherworld where he can kick it with dominion over all of the souls dumb enough to follow him there. He cannot imagine defeat.
Have you asked Satan about that?
I never consciously talk to him. Do you suppose he has another explanation? If so, why would I believe him? BTW If he is but a figment, I never pay attention to him anyways...win/win situation.

This message is a reply to:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 18348
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 22 of 54 (141257)
09-09-2004 2:50 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by 1.61803
09-09-2004 11:30 AM


Mick, Keith,Lucifer, and the Boys...
I'm not sure what is worse. Once upon a time, it was fashionable to brand Mick Jagger as the quinessential antichrist. Now that the Rolling Stones have themselves become old, fat and wealthy, they may be more befitting of the title than before....yet nobody gives them a second thought. Gastric ReFlux may have a point in that
Satan exists as a post hoc rationalization of why we think there is evil in this world...
But C.S. Lewis once wrote that Satans neatest trick was in convincing people that he did NOT exist. I do not pray for him for the simple reason that I do not know him. Praying for the people of India is easier than praying for one image on a Weather Channel typhoon video of a family picking up their scattered house after a typhoon. BTW I do not think that God or Satan have anything to do with that one...but even viewpoints as radical as contracycles would agree with me when I say that the Love of money IS the root of all evil. Mick Jagger made a lot of money off a bad boy image, but, as he found out at Altamont, true evil scares even him.
http://www.echoes.com/rememberaday/altamont.html
Check out this link and judge for yourselves the capability of evil to manifest and even personify an event/person/situation. I think it is more than just a bunch of drunk motorcyclists.
This message has been edited by Phatboy, 09-09-2004 04:39 PM

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 Message 23 by Rei, posted 09-09-2004 3:41 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 25 by sidelined, posted 09-09-2004 11:56 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 26 by lfen, posted 09-10-2004 1:57 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18348
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 27 of 54 (141352)
09-10-2004 6:11 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by lfen
09-10-2004 1:57 AM


Source of suffering? Where is it?
Phatboy, you are being duped. You are being fed distracting propaganda to keep your attention away from the real sources of suffering in this world.
But what is it that causes these sources to behave badly? Wrong form of government? Too much time on their hands? Human nature? If that is so, I assert Original Sin.
Or could it be that you are in agreement with contracycle in that we merely need an evolved, pragmatic, classless government and then everyone will behave! I say....[NOT!] Christianity, abused by many throughout History, is still more of a belief of hope rather than a mere tool of capitalism. I could say that you may be duped by these liberal socialist profs that you have listened to. Getting back to the topic,
sidelined writes:
I would like to know if Christians agree or disagree that Satan is worthy of being prayed for and if any christian here has?
Satan is not worthy of being prayed for...either as a real belief or an allegory. I would pray for my government, however. They need all the help they can get! BTW I would pray for those in power whom I disagree with.
This message has been edited by Phatboy, 09-10-2004 05:23 AM

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18348
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 32 of 54 (141416)
09-10-2004 2:03 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by lfen
09-10-2004 11:26 AM


Ifen writes:
Then God chose to create a universe in which he could struggle against an opponent power, so he created Satan as his opponent and uses human beings as the game pieces? Earth is then God and Satan's gameboard, only God knows from the beginning he will win, so how much fun is that to play?
The deciding factor is the human decision making process. We create our own chess game in this spiritual struggle. The struggle is an absolute reality to some of us, yet by this admission, we set ourselves up for embarrassment. Remember the Proctor&Gamble hoax?Humor & Whimsy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by lfen, posted 09-10-2004 11:26 AM lfen has replied

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18348
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 40 of 54 (141515)
09-11-2004 5:50 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by riVeRraT
09-10-2004 5:32 PM


Flight 93 In Rememberance
Here is the story of Flight 93 retold:
http://www.post-gazette.com/.../20011028flt93mainstoryp7.asp
As most of you know, there was a lot of life and death decisions on Flight 93, which crashed 3 years ago today. One question which I might bring to the forum is this: Were the terrorists and the passengers who chose to give their lives worshipping the same God?
Obviously, as a Christian, I would say that No, they were not.
The night before boarding Flight 93, in their hotel rooms, Jarrah would have opened a list of instructions, kept in a notebook that apparently was written by his old friend Atta.
It instructed them to bathe, wear cologne, shave excess hair from their bodies and check the knives they carried.
"You must make your knife sharp and you must not discomfort your animal during the slaughter," it read.
"Completely forget something called 'this life.' The time for play is over and the serious time is upon us."
At some point -- the best estimation is about 40 minutes into the flight west -- at least three of the hijackers stood up and put red bandanas around their heads. Two of them forced their way into the cockpit. One took the loudspeaker microphone, unaware it could also be heard by air traffic controllers, and announced that someone had a bomb onboard and the flight was returning to the airport. He told them he was the pilot, but spoke with an accent....It was 9:45 a.m.
Somewhere outside Cleveland, United Flight 93 had made a sharp turn and began flying east, toward Washington, D.C.Sometime shortly before 10 a.m., Tom Burnett called home one last time.
"A group of us is going to do something," he told Deena.
"I told him, 'No, Tom, just sit down and don't draw attention to yourself,' " she said.
"Deena," he told her, "If they're going to crash the plane into the ground, we have to do something. We can't wait for the authorities. We have to do something now."..."They're doing it! They're doing it! They're doing it!" she said. Lorne Lyles heard a scream. Then his wife said something he couldn't understand. Then the line went dead.
One thing that I have thought about when talking to some of you who are not as "spiritual" as myself and Mike is the fact that fundamentalist mindsets are never the most stable. I will admit that this includes zealous Christians as well. But what of these passengers? They faced death as bravely as their killers. They were forced to confront the life and death issues of their faith. They acted selflessly to save lives...for they knew that the plane would probably target something in Washington D.C. Perhaps they thought that they would be victorious and not die.
I don't know if I would have been able to be as courageous as they were.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by riVeRraT, posted 09-10-2004 5:32 PM riVeRraT has replied

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 Message 42 by riVeRraT, posted 09-11-2004 2:01 PM Phat has not replied
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Phat
Member
Posts: 18348
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 50 of 54 (467657)
05-23-2008 4:33 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by riVeRraT
09-10-2004 7:45 AM


This seemed like a good topic
Do you remember this topic from long ago, Rat?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by riVeRraT, posted 09-10-2004 7:45 AM riVeRraT has not replied

  
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