Gnostic timeline reversed?

From what I learned in my philsophy class, Dionysus and Christ didn't have this many similarities.........besides, it's a moot point, because the Dionysus cult might have just been an off-shoot of Christianty.

Doubtful. For starters, NONE of the church fathers were Gnostics.......and the Gnostics were considered heretics by all of the church fathers. So, if the FOUNDERS of the religion weren't Gnostics, I think it's safe to say that Biblical theology predates Gnosticism.Also, the Catholic church was founded in order to combine Christianty and Paganism.......so why wouldn't the already formed fusions of Christianity with Paganism, such as Gnosticism, been embrassed if it was the form if Christianty that most early Christians adhered to? The obvious answer is that most early Christians did NOT adhere to Gnosticism, and so the Rome abolished Gnosticism in order to make its union with Christianity more agreeable to Christians.

This is incorrect, to my knowledge........the epistles are the oldest New Testament texts, and they predate every gospel and are possibly as old as just four years after the crucifixtion.As far as the Gospel of Thomas, I don't recall their being anything in it which makes it a blatantly Gnostic text......"split a piece of wood, and I am there" and other such things could be interpretted in different ways. Also, I've heard no proof that the Gospel of Thomas is even particularly old.

I've heard four years after........besides, even 51 A.D. would predate all gospels, and Paul clearly expresses true Christian theology in all his epistles.

I've never read it entirely, but the only part I've heard which seems like it MIGHT be Gnostic is that one verse.........so, seems as if it's definitely not a Gnostic gospel.

I don't know where you got this from, but the Romans held many various councils (Council of Nicea comes to mine) to decide what was going to be official church theology and official church canon.......the New Testament canon now in existence is based on the concensus of Christian historians at the time........I've never heard this "one auothor" stuff before. This ISN'T a new idea, though.........we've had the Gnostic gospels since the 40s........you're making the teenager mistake of thinking that because something is new to YOU, it's new period. No, the epistles and the Revelation was passed through as well, the first of which undeniably predates any other Christian writing........and reflectes no Gnostic theology whatsoever.And, I reiterate, NONE of Christ's disciples were Gnostics.......how could Gnosticism predate Christianity when the students of Christ Himself didn't adhere to it?

I don't recall Dionysus being tortured by the Titans or born of a virgin.......and, apart from that and the wine-ceremony, all these other things also apply to the cult of Alexander the Great.........standard stuff.As far as drinking the blood of Dionysus, obviously one religion influenced the other........but you can't prove that it was the cult of Dionysus influending Christianity and not the other way around.......in fact, rejection of Pagan religion was why Christians were persecuted by Rome, so it's much more likely that the cult of Dionysus picked up the wind-ceremony from Christianity than vice-versa. No reason to speculate this. Besides, as I said before, the Catholic church CREATED many links between Pagan and Christian.......so why would they abolish the pre-existing ones?

We know they must have been written some time between then (that's when Paul might the Disciples in Jerusalem) and Paul's death.........there's no reason to believe they WEREN'T written that early, from what I've heard.But as long as we agree that the epistles pre-date everything else, it kind of trumps every other pagan conspiracy, doesn't it?

No, he did not.......the first historically documented mentioned for god-blood-drinking is in the epistles.Don't believe everything your Philosophy professor tells you.......This message has been edited by SirPimpsalot, 10-22-2004 10:18 AM

That was the the inception of the Catholocism.......what went on before? This is true........but no Gnostic writings exist in ANYONE's canon, that's for certain.

No problem, brah.......just remember, dates vary depending on who you ask, but I'm pretty sure no one will deny that the earliest Christian writings in existance are the epistles (all books of the New Testament except the gospels and Revelations......."epistle" means "letter", and they are the letters sent from Paul and some of the disciples to various churches), and the epistles have no Gnostic or Pagan theology in them whatsoever.......and don't believe everything your parents taught you, but just because they taught it to you doesn't mean it's wrong.Oh, BTW, this thread shouldn't get closed any time soon, I can't imagine.This message has been edited by SirPimpsalot, 10-22-2004 12:05 PM

Um, I didn't hear the word "virgin" anywhere in that story......again, this would apply to the cult of Alexander the Great, the Hercules myth, etc., etc. Vague resemblance (especially since there was no actual resurrection), except for the dual nature theology. But not the Christ-like Dionysus story. What facts? The only facts we have are that a few cults sprung up contemporaneously to Christianity with borrowed aspects from it.....This message has been edited by SirPimpsalot, 10-22-2004 04:07 PM

A thought has just occured to me.......since most aspects of the Christ mythos are taken from pre-Christian, Judaic texts, shouldn't that eliminate all controversy as to which religion came first and influenced the subsequent religions?

Um, I fail to see an example here of any Gnostic writings existing in modern Christian canons. Whom would you be speaking of? Besides, a Gnostic-like interpretation isn't the same as Gnostic theology. For me, personally, there are aspects of my interpretation of religion which I found in Islam and Hindu and Buddhism, but my theology is pure........

This was an old Rabbinical tradition, which (if I recall correctly) pre-dates both Christianity and Gnosticism, making collections of sayings.......it reflects nothing particularly Gnostic, nor does it reflect any mythologizing in other gospels. And very Christian......."I will be with you always, even until the end of the Earth."