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Author Topic:   Which Bible is Inerrant?
Phat
Member
Posts: 18348
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 19 of 86 (218757)
06-22-2005 6:11 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by deerbreh
06-22-2005 5:24 PM


Re: Inerrancy means "without error" - The Bible clearly is not.
To me it is almost blasphemus to suggest literal truth. Furthermore, who is to say which of the ancient texts is "scripture" and which is not? Do we really think the early church was free of political maneuvering when it came to deciding what was "in" and what was "out"? Did Paul intend for his letters to be scripture?
Good points, but I think that we need to establish what truth really is. If the origin of truth really is from God revealed incarnately through the man Christ Jesus, we cannot take any of our human knowledge as a source and a standard of comparison. Yes, humans are human and back in the day there was a lot of political and societal manuevering. That is a given. The real issue is just how much of a truth WAS and IS Jesus? For IF He is who He says He is and IF there really is a sort of a spiritual war and disconnect between human wisdom/truth and Gods truth, all sorts of possibilities could arise.
Almost mystical/supernatural, I think.

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 Message 18 by deerbreh, posted 06-22-2005 5:24 PM deerbreh has not replied

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 Message 20 by Deut. 32.8, posted 06-22-2005 6:22 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18348
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 21 of 86 (218940)
06-23-2005 11:18 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by Deut. 32.8
06-22-2005 6:22 PM


Innerrent in meaning: A Leap Of Faith
My point is that if human wisdom is used as the selection criteria, God Himself can never shine in ones life. Have you not heard of the "leap" of faith? Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the
evidence of things not seen. (or reasoned. Or proven. Or analysed.)
If humans actually are in some sort of a spiritual "war" or test, and if trusting God rather than trying to raise out of it all is our duty, Human wisdom is actually a tool of the enemy. (I know that this does not sit well with most of you)

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 Message 20 by Deut. 32.8, posted 06-22-2005 6:22 PM Deut. 32.8 has not replied

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 Message 22 by Brian, posted 06-23-2005 11:41 AM Phat has replied
 Message 24 by deerbreh, posted 06-25-2005 12:31 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18348
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 25 of 86 (219494)
06-25-2005 7:07 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by Brian
06-23-2005 11:41 AM


Re: Innerrent in meaning: A Leap Of Faith
Brian writes:
But why shouldn't human wisdom be used as the selection criteria?
Look at History. We have found errors in the way that History has been taught. Human nature? Look at any of the movietone news reels of the fifties. Now look at the news today. Human interpretation and utilization of psychology has shaped the way that information (not necessarily facts) is presented. Getting back to my original premise, what IF we ARE in some sort of spiritual war dynamic. Would not everything possible be used to discredit or disprove the story of Jesus Christ?
Inerrency means sticking to the facts. How do we know that human scholars, perhaps out to make a name for themselves consciously and out to disprove Jesus Christ subconsciously have toyed with the facts? Some suggest perpetuation of a myth to control humanity. I won't disagree with the control part, but the myth may be real.

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 Message 22 by Brian, posted 06-23-2005 11:41 AM Brian has not replied

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 Message 26 by ramoss, posted 06-25-2005 8:32 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18348
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 27 of 86 (219536)
06-25-2005 12:48 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by ramoss
06-25-2005 8:32 AM


Re: Innerrent in meaning: A Leap Of Faith
ramoss writes:
And what are the facts? Different people claim different facts with their claims of innerrency.
Thats another thing! I have read many of the reasons why the Bible is fallible. I must say that I respect some of the people who believe this way, such as Brian. On the other hand, I have read some respected apologist literature and those guys tell a different tale. If they were a bunch of backwoods Arkansas fundies, I would dismiss the claims of apologetic proof entirely. The fact is, many many authors have also made quite a claim for Biblical soundness.
So I ask myself, why such a controversy? Are the educated apologists such as Norman Geisler, Peter Kreeft, C.S. Lewis, Simon Greenleaf( a former attorney) and many others so dead wrong? It almost seems as if there is a vendetta...call it a spiritual war!
Its like trying to listen to what one guy says and have another guy whispering in your ear "don't believe him!" "He has a history of mental illness!" and then showing me facts of such.
I question things, but what I have seen in this innerency/fairy tale debate leaves me only with the conclusion that there is no prrof academically either way.
So I again look to human nature. It is true that we have progressed in many areas of our capabilities. We can cure or prevent many diseases. We can understand the human mind in ways that we never could before. Yet...yet we cannot stop war. We cannot discourage greed. Murder is at an alltime high. People are as restless as ever.
Yes, the Bible itself is just an old book of chronicles. The issue behind innerrency is tthe belief of whether or not there is a God and of whether or not humans need Him. Belief leads credibilility to innerrent intent.
If we ask ourselves the motive behind belief in an innerrent message, we must then ask ourselves the motive for attempting to disprove the same.
Marshall MacLuhan writes:
Personally, I have a great faith in the resiliency and adaptability of man, and I tend to look to our tomorrows with a surge of excitement and hope. I feel that we're standing on the threshold of a liberating and exhilarating world in which the human tribe can become truly one family and man's consciousness can be freed from the shackles of mechanical culture and enabled to roam the cosmos. I have a deep and abiding belief in man's potential to grow and learn, to plumb the depths of his own being and to learn the secret songs that orchestrate the universe. We live in a transitional era of profound pain and tragic identity quest, but the agony of our age is the labor pain of rebirth.
I expect to see the coming decades transform the planet into an art form; the new man, linked in a cosmic harmony that transcends time and space, will sensuously caress and mold and pattern every facet of the terrestrial artifact as if it were a work of art, and man himself will become an organic art form.
So will Ye be as gods? Is the old fable in any way prophetic about the attitude of human potential and destiny?
Or is spiritual truth a human concept that has outlived its usefullness?

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