Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,889 Year: 4,146/9,624 Month: 1,017/974 Week: 344/286 Day: 0/65 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   To "Believe in God/Jesus" Means
Monk
Member (Idle past 3952 days)
Posts: 782
From: Kansas, USA
Joined: 02-25-2005


Message 48 of 78 (195401)
03-30-2005 9:42 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by purpledawn
03-28-2005 2:56 PM


Mature belief
purpledawn writes:
So does "believe in" in regards to God and Jesus mean to accept that they exist or to trust their abilities?
IMHO, for a believer, it is both and for a non believer it is neither. I think it depends on where one is on life’s journey. For someone who has recently accepted faith in God, believe in is simply acceptance. As one matures in the faith, then trust in God’s abilities become the meaning of belief.
purpledawn writes:
The people of the Bible supposedly had physical evidence from which to make their decision. Today we are expected to trust without it.
Doesn’t seem fair does it. With all the miracles of the Old Testament it seems ridiculous that the Israelites continued to lack faith and revert to paganism and corruption.
Or consider the teachings of Jesus and the miracles he performed. To us, it would seem easy to believe if we were a witness to those events. Events that were external to the individual.
Now consider our present day where we have no miracles visible to a broad group of people. Externally, there is nothing except the written Word and testimony of believers as the basis for belief. Therefore, we not only question the abilities of God but also God’s very existence.
Why is this so? Why are there no major miracles today that would remove at least the question of God’s existence? Why has God raised the bar for belief? All God would have to do is send down a little manna from heaven, like he did to the Israelites in the desert, and there would be a huge number of converts.
Obviously, that’s not the way God wants it. He gave us free will for a reason.
It seems to me there is a progression in how God relates to mankind. Sort of a maturing process. There is a movement from a distant and often vengeful God of the OT who performed quite a few rather spectacular miracles. Here, God was very active in proving his existence by revealing his power over nature. To the Israelites of that time, there was no question about God’s existence.
Then with the NT, there is a progression to a more personal and loving God, a further revelation. Jesus’ messages were accompanied by personal miracles,(i.e. more of the one-on-one healings and less involved with power over nature). At this point, the existence of God had been established. The Jewish religion had matured through long held traditions focused on the worship of God.
Finally on to the present day, where there are virtually no external miracles, (i.e. miracles witnessed by a large group of people). Nowadays, there is only the Spirit of God, working through the individual, as the primary basis for belief. A further step in the maturity of faith.
I believe God has made it clear that He desires a personal relationship with His people, a mature relationship. IMHO, God wants us to honor the OT and understand the history of God’s interactions with mankind as a basis for belief, but move to the NT relationship. A relationship that does not require great external miracles.
Since God has been using the personal approach for the last two thousand years, it seems this is His preferred method of communication and path to belief.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by purpledawn, posted 03-28-2005 2:56 PM purpledawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by purpledawn, posted 03-30-2005 6:41 PM Monk has replied

  
Monk
Member (Idle past 3952 days)
Posts: 782
From: Kansas, USA
Joined: 02-25-2005


Message 51 of 78 (195689)
03-31-2005 9:00 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by purpledawn
03-30-2005 6:41 PM


Re: Mature belief
Your opinion was shared by Sigmund Freud when he wrote:
quote:
If one attempts to assign to religion its place in man's evolution, it seems not so much to be a lasting acquisition, as a parallel to the neurosis which the civilized individual must pass through on his way from childhood to maturity.
Yes, that is the other side of the coin. But do you believe that in the distant future, given enough time, mankind will eventually completely abandon all religion?

My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind. ---Albert Einstein

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by purpledawn, posted 03-30-2005 6:41 PM purpledawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by purpledawn, posted 03-31-2005 10:32 AM Monk has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024