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Author Topic:   The Bible 2003 Edition by God et al.
David unfamous
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 64 (32634)
02-19-2003 5:40 AM


Give me one reason why the most powerful being in existence would create such a scrappy, thrown together book comprised primarily of hearsay, then watch nearly 2000 years pass as the book gets screwed up through translation and has holes picked in it because of scientific and historical errancy, but doesn't think of updating it.

Surely it would be a piece of cake to create the new edition in every language spoken by every person on the globe. I mean, why produce a book in just one language after that Babel incident?

And if it were a new version, it would contain new stories of modern people doing stuff young people can relate to. And at least then it would be verifiable by all of us.

Then there's the science. As we know a lot more than we did back then, it could contain up-to-date explanations of Genesis.

Is this a good idea, or is there some perfectly good reason against it?


Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Brian, posted 02-20-2003 3:50 PM David unfamous has not yet responded
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Brian
Member (Idle past 3003 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 2 of 64 (32754)
02-20-2003 3:50 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by David unfamous
02-19-2003 5:40 AM


Hi David,

I agree wholeheartedly with what you say.

The Bible we have was written primarily for relatviely ignorant peasants and Jesus apparently used parables because they were tailored for the intelligence level of his audience.

The Bible, as we have it today, is accessible to far more people that it ever has been before, subsequently it has lost a lot of its mystique. Modern historians and archaeologists have really disproved most of the 'historical events' in the Old Testament. I personally do not study the New Testament very much as I find it particularly boring, I mean how can you compare Jesus' tantrum in the Temple to Samson and his rampage with the jawbone.

Anyway, I agree, the bible was written at specific times for specific audiences and for specific reasons, maybe it is time that God brought out a new edition, one with far fewer errors and more coherent.

Maybe He could produce some international editions, but that would take away some inerrantist's best apologetic, 'yes that looks like a mistake but is actually a mistranslation.'

Maybe we could plagarise the Bible and produce our own updated version, we could have our own 'prophecies' as well, all we have to say is that the Holy Spirit guided us. The fact that Josh MacDowell can sell millions of books proves there's enough gullible people out for us to make a fortune and retire.

The only problem I can see is that God likes to keep His followers ignorant of the true reality that surrounds them, why else would he make a 6000 year old universe look so much older?

Best Wishes

Brian.

------------------
Remembering events that never happened is a dangerous thing!


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drummachine
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 64 (32981)
02-23-2003 9:33 PM


Where are the errors in the bible? Where is the evidence of the earth looking older? You believe the bible is not for today, how? It was for ignorant peasant people? Please explain. Why was Jesus angry in the temple? Sure there are people that have made new translations(politically correct or whatever). There are still correct translations.
Replies to this message:
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Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5375
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 4 of 64 (32992)
02-23-2003 11:04 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by David unfamous
02-19-2003 5:40 AM


IPU
You should go check out any of the various sects of the Invisible Pink Unicorn (praise be unto Her Holy Hooves!) All of her worship is online, and you frequently can ask the authors of Her Holy Books by email if you have questions about scriptural interpretation. Try that with Malachi or Jonah!
http://www.geocities.com/ipuprophecy/ipu.html is one, and Google will find you more if you're some kind of scumbag heretic or something.
This message is a reply to:
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David unfamous
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 64 (33022)
02-24-2003 6:19 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by drummachine
02-23-2003 9:33 PM


Where are the errors in the bible?
Here's a link to the 192 online issues of Biblical Errancy by Dennis McKinsey: http://members.aol.com/ckbloomfld/

Where is the evidence of the earth looking older?
If you continually ask this question drummachine, yet ignore the response every......single......time, then why should we have to play your little game of ignorance.

You believe the bible is not for today, how?
What use are passages like these?

Leviticus 24:23 Then Moses spoke to the Israelites, and they took the blasphemer outside the camp and stoned him. The Israelites did as the LORD commanded Moses.

Numbers 15:36 So the assembly took him outside the camp and stoned him to death, as the LORD commanded Moses.

Leviticus 19:20 'If a man sleeps with a woman who is a slave girl promised to another man but who has not been ransomed or given her freedom, there must be due punishment. Yet they are not to be put to death, because she had not been freed.

Leviticus 22:11 But if a priest buys a slave with money, or if a slave is born in his household, that slave may eat his food.

Leviticus 11:6 The rabbit, though it chews the cud, does not have a split hoof; it is unclean for you.

Leviticus 12:2 Say to the Israelites: 'A woman who becomes pregnant and gives birth to a son will be ceremonially unclean for seven days, just as she is unclean during her monthly period.

Leviticus 12:5 If she gives birth to a daughter, for two weeks the woman will be unclean, as during her period. Then she must wait sixty-six days to be purified from her bleeding.

Leviticus 13:45 The person with such an infectious disease must wear torn clothes, let his hair be unkempt, cover the lower part of his face and cry out, 'Unclean! Unclean!'

Leviticus 15:19 'When a woman has her regular flow of blood, the impurity of her monthly period will last seven days, and anyone who touches her will be unclean till evening.

And what does this teach children?
Genesis 19:32 Let's get our father to drink wine and then lie with him and preserve our family line through our father.

It was for ignorant peasant people? Please explain.
The Biblical Jesus told stories that could be understood by all. This included those who could not read nor write like peasants.

Why was Jesus angry in the temple?
Because he was under the dellusion the temple was his house.

Sure there are people that have made new translations(politically correct or whatever). There are still correct translations.
What do you see as a 'correct' version? Like I said, you'd expect a new version from the author. Or are we too painfully aware that occurences of God intervening with humans in the same way as in the Bible are non-existent?


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Gzus
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 64 (33025)
02-24-2003 6:38 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by drummachine
02-23-2003 9:33 PM


quote:
drummachine
You believe the bible is not for today, how?

tales of fire and brimstone don't mix well with smart kids


This message is a reply to:
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Brian
Member (Idle past 3003 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 7 of 64 (33084)
02-24-2003 4:42 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by drummachine
02-23-2003 9:33 PM


'Where are the errors in the bible?'

On the pages.

Where is the evidence of the earth looking older?

All around you.

You believe the bible is not for today, how?

How? I think you might mean WHY?

It was for ignorant peasant people? Please explain.

It is full of ignorant information, hence written for ignorant people.

Why was Jesus angry in the temple?

Because people were changing money and conducting business in his father's house, haven't you read the Bible? Wait a minute wasn't the Temple actually Jesus' house. Come to think of it, isn't Jesus his own father and also his own son? But seriously, what evidence do you have that this actually happened?

'Sure there are people that have made new translations(politically correct or whatever).'

Yes, usually these are revised editions when, for example, new archaeological discoveries disprove something that the Bible promotes.

'There are still correct translations.'

Are there; how do you know this; what are they translated from?

Drummachine,

I have read some of your posts and although I am sure that you mean well, you really have a very poor working knowledge of science and theology. You should research a little better before you make wild claims about your faith.

My advice is to take an 'introduction to the Bible' course at a local college and learn about your faith and scriptures.

I could have answered your questions more fully but I am bored senseless refuting tired old childish arguments.

What makes you think that your FAITH is a superior way to live and is more moralistic than anyone else's. Yet you forget that your faith promotes racism, religious bigotry and homophobia. Your God murdered countless women and children in the Old Testament, and you and your kind think this is fine because the victims had a different lifestyle to what you think is the ideal.

Although I wasn't drug addict I had a pretty rough time growing up, I was in trouble with the police a few times but I won't bore you with the details. I turned my life around by myself, so you can see that Jesus isn't the only 'salvic' path

You come here after having what COULD HAVE been psychotic episode in which you believe you met Jesus and it saved you from drugs and wanting to kill your father. I am really glad you are 'clean' now, but there's no need for you go into overkill on the Jesus trip.

The thing is, you have FAITH in Jesus as your Lord and Saviour, it is a faith, yet you need confirmation of his claims from science and a silly little collection of writings in a Book.

Maybe your faith is too weak to resist the FACT that the Bible has errors, and that these errors have no bearing whatsoever on whether Jesus is God or not.

Try and think up some original arguments, or at least don't ask questions that children would ask.

Best wishes, you can be a Christian without ejecting your brain the minute you meet 'Jesus'.

Brian.

PS,

Sorry admin, I suppose some of my comments were a bit over the top, it has been a long day, I apologise again for posting some of the comments.

[Thanks, much appreciated and really big of you! --Admin]

[This message has been edited by Brian Johnston, 02-24-2003]

[This message has been edited by Admin, 02-24-2003]


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Admin
Director
Posts: 12578
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 8 of 64 (33097)
02-24-2003 5:29 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Brian
02-24-2003 4:42 PM


Revision Requested
Hi Brian,

Don't make a big deal out of this, but that was a bit strong. Could you take a stab at another draft of your post that perhaps hints that even atheists can have charity in their hearts? Use the edit button. Thanks!

Hi Drummachine,

Don't get too comfortable, the gist of Brian's comments were pretty much on the mark. Could I request that you begin adding supporting evidence and argument to your assertions? Thanks!

------------------
--EvC Forum Administrator


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drummachine
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 64 (33817)
03-07-2003 1:48 AM


You believe I was asking you questions about Christ in the temple, etc. because I did not understand? Actually I was asking you to see what you would say. It was perfectly just for Him to do that. The merchants in the temple were selling items and ripping people off big time. The "religious leaders" or (pharisees and saducees) were living their life for show. Looking holy but within full of corruption as Christ taught because He knew their thoughts. They would make all these traditions for people to carry to bring them into bondage basically. If I went into your house and stole something should I be punished? The Old Testament was the recorded history of the nation of Israel. From creation until the arrival of the Messiah. About a 400 year gap between the last book and the birth of Jesus Christ. Not everything you read is approved by God. The first five books of the bible is called the Torah. It was the law for the nation of Israel. Were not under the law because the Messiah has fulfilled the law at the cross. Today is the day of salvation. The day of grace. Yes, there are scriptures that are hard to understand. Rather then trying to destroy the bible why not try to find out its meaning? The creator says that He is without sin. He created everything very good without sin. He created man and gave man a choice between His ways or his own. Man brought rebellion and brought death into the world. The first blood sacrifice of an animal was made for their sin. Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin. Sin destroys everything. The temple had to be pure and thats where they had to make sacrifical offerings for their sin. Life for life. Blood for blood. This was all a picture of what was to come in Jesus Christ. The creator is a God of love, peace, grace and forgiveness. But He is also a God of justice and righteousness. All through the Old and New Testament it says God is not mocked. Whatever a man sows he will reap. The reason He has given these laws was so people would not sin. He knows that sin destorys families, friends, children. Even our own soul. As we see in history up to today. Sin destroys everything. We all know it does. Is hell a literal lake of fire? I don't know. i don't want to know. I believe it is more a spiritual death and pain being seperated from the creator. Realizing for eternity it is what you chose and what you have to live with forever. He has made EVERY way possible for us not to go there but to have His peace, love and forgiveness. To have a brand new life. Whatever pain you might have would be removed. Many things are recorded through out the bible like Israel taking their children and burning them on altars. Did God command this? Fromthe words of Jesus Christ, "What shall it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his own soul?"

Leviticus 12:2 She was considered unclean to go into the temple until the 7 days were over. And during those days she is taking care of her child as well.

Leviticus 12:5 During that time she did not need to go to the temple. She was taking care of her child.

Leviticus 13:45 He was unclean to enter into the temple. The aim of these laws was to protect the people from disease, but more importantly, to show them by vivid object lessons how God desired purity, holiness and cleanness among His people.

Leviticus 15:19 This concerns a natural menstrual discharge of a woman for which no offerings were required.

Leviticus 11:6 Such a unique diet was specified that Israel would not relate themselves to their neighbors that worshiped idols.

Leviticus 19:20 In the case of immorality with a betrothed slave(bond servant), the couple was to be punished. God judges sin. He is the law giver.

Leviticus 22:11 Its talking about a bond servant. Not some chained slave. One who agrees(bond) to work for the family. One who comes and lives with the family. Almost like a son or daughter.

Leviticus 24:23 The Lord God commanded him to be stoned. Sin brings judgement. I will try to find more related to this reason. He is the God who brings justice and judgement for those who do not repent.

Numbers 15:36 This was illustration of a defiant sin. When it was determined that ther was a premeditated violation of the Sabbath law, death was required.

Genesis 19:32 Historical writings. Not God's commandment. The immoral philosophy of Sodom and Gomorrah had so corrupted the thinking of Lot's daughters that they unhesitatingly contrived to be impregnated by their own father!

There are newer translations of the bible that have been translated from different manuscripts. But of course there are still translations that have not been corrupted. Try looking on the history of translations if interested.

It's getting late. Maybe this weekend I will post a huge page about the bible. Maybe I'll give you some evidence of history that shows man was very advanced in the past, why the ark makes since, young earth, etc.


Replies to this message:
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Andya Primanda
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 64 (33906)
03-08-2003 1:36 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by drummachine
03-07-2003 1:48 AM


drummachine,

We will be waiting anxiously for your major post. Just keep the preaching in low quantities, okay?


This message is a reply to:
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drummachine
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 64 (34435)
03-14-2003 10:55 PM


The things I was going to post you can find and more at ANSWERSINGENESIS.ORG.
Replies to this message:
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Admin
Director
Posts: 12578
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 12 of 64 (34449)
03-15-2003 7:40 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by drummachine
03-14-2003 10:55 PM


The things I was going to post you can find and more at ANSWERSINGENESIS.ORG

This is a little vague. Someone could carry on in the same way and reply, "The rebuttals to the things you were going to post can be found at http://www.talkorigins.org," and what would that accomplish?

The intention is that discussion of issues take place here, rather than merely enumerate bibliographic references. Rule 5 of the Forum Guidelines states:

  1. Bare links with no supporting discussion should be avoided.

Could you please post some discussion supporting your points here? Thanks!

------------------
--EvC Forum Administrator


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drummachine
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 64 (34721)
03-19-2003 9:19 PM


Admin,

Is it possible that the facts are on that site?


Replies to this message:
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Admin
Director
Posts: 12578
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 14 of 64 (34746)
03-20-2003 8:06 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by drummachine
03-19-2003 9:19 PM


Hi Drum,

Is it possible that the facts are on that site?

Did you read the message you're replying to? Did you notice that it said:

The intention is that discussion of issues take place here, rather than merely enumerate bibliographic references. Rule 5 of the Forum Guidelines states:

  1. Bare links with no supporting discussion should be avoided.

This explains why it doesn't matter whether the facts are on that site or not. As I just explained to Judge in Message 17 of the The Bible Unearthed - Exodus thread:

As the Forum Guidelines clearly state, links should be accompanied with some explanation or discussion. This serves several purposes. It indicates you understood the link and have read it yourself, it allows people to understand how you're using the information in the link to make your point, and if the content of the link is lengthy it can make clear the relevant portion.

Combined with the fact that you posted the exact same link as your only reply in Message 96 of the Let us reason together thread, and that I cautioned you about it in that thread in Message 98, your response provides more evidence for the possibility that you are not reading messages addressed to you, at least not very carefully.

When you registered you were presented the Forum Guidelines, and I presume you clicked "I agree". All I'm asking is that you live up to what you already agreed to.

------------------
--EvC Forum Administrator


This message is a reply to:
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drummachine
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 64 (34770)
03-20-2003 11:11 AM


I will agree to that.
  
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