EvC Forum: How can we be possibly be happy in Heaven?

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Topic: How can we be possibly be happy in Heaven?

doctrbill

Member (Idle past 2795 days)

Posts: 1174

From: Eugene, Oregon, USA

Joined: 01-08-2001

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Message 34 of 132 (54493)
09-08-2003 9:48 PM

Reply to: Message 33 by Joralex
09-08-2003 2:42 PM

Re: Happy in Heaven??

Joralex writes:

... this grace from God is available to all that confess their state (of sin) and have a heart-filled acceptance and confession of Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.

You seem to have covered everything except the part about where to send my money.

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"I was very unwilling to give up my belief." Charles Darwin

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	Message 33 by Joralex, posted 09-08-2003 2:42 PM		Joralex has replied

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	Message 35 by Joralex, posted 09-08-2003 10:44 PM		doctrbill has replied

doctrbill

Member (Idle past 2795 days)

Posts: 1174

From: Eugene, Oregon, USA

Joined: 01-08-2001

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Message 36 of 132 (54499)
09-08-2003 11:57 PM

Reply to: Message 35 by Joralex
09-08-2003 10:44 PM

Re: Happy in Heaven??

Joralex writes:

There... now I've covered everything at least as far as doctrbill is concerned!

Thank you for your prompt, diplomatic and humorous reply.

------------------
"I was very unwilling to give up my belief." Charles Darwin

This message is a reply to:
	Message 35 by Joralex, posted 09-08-2003 10:44 PM		Joralex has not replied

doctrbill

Member (Idle past 2795 days)

Posts: 1174

From: Eugene, Oregon, USA

Joined: 01-08-2001

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Message 45 of 132 (54657)
09-09-2003 11:38 PM

Reply to: Message 44 by Joralex
09-09-2003 10:56 PM

Are There Two Gods?

Have a nut, Joralex ...

If anyone can crack this, or make it sound crackable, or simply persuade us that it doesn't need to be cracked; I'm sure you're the one to do it.

According to the Book of Exodus, Moses and the Elders of the Children of Israel saw God.

"Moses and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel went up, and they saw the God of Israel ... And he did not lay his hand on the chief men of the people of Israel; they beheld God, and ate and drank. Exodus 24:9-11 KJV

The Living Bible says,

"Yet, even though the elders saw God, he did not destroy them; and they had a meal together before the Lord. Ex. 24:11

They were amazed at this because the LORD had previously threatened,

"No man shall see me and live." Ex. 33:20

In another place the Bible says that Moses talked with the LORD

"... face to face, as a man talks to his friend. Ex. 33:11

Even so, the Apostles write,

God is a spirit" John 4:24

"No one has ever seen God." John 1:18 RSV

"... the king eternal, immortal, invisible ..." 1 Tim. 1:17

"... the image of the invisible God," Col. 1:15

Is this a contradiction?

Is God visible or invisible?

How can both be true at the same time?

Can you answer this without resorting to the three-in-one theory?

(reminds me of the old all purpose lubricating oil)

------------------
"I was very unwilling to give up my belief." Charles Darwin

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	Message 44 by Joralex, posted 09-09-2003 10:56 PM		Joralex has not replied

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	Message 58 by truthlover, posted 09-11-2003 11:49 PM		doctrbill has replied

doctrbill

Member (Idle past 2795 days)

Posts: 1174

From: Eugene, Oregon, USA

Joined: 01-08-2001

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Message 59 of 132 (55106)
09-12-2003 11:55 AM

Reply to: Message 58 by truthlover
09-11-2003 11:49 PM

Re: Are There Two Gods?

truthlover writes:

I call this the "two in two" theory, ... God has a son. ... The Son showed up many times as God's "angel." Those who saw him seemed to recognize him as divine, and referred to him as Yahweh or God, but also referred to him as "the Angel of God."

Would you say that 'angel of the LORD' is an equivalent saying? But, of course you would. The two sayings are presented equivalently in scripture, so far as I am aware. The problem with your 'two in two' theory, as I see it, is that except for the anointed king of Israel, none other, in the OT is referred to as 'Son of God.'

... The appearances of God on earth in the Tanach were the Son. Thus Yahweh on earth can call down fire from Yahweh in heaven in Genesis, and Yahweh can be sent by Yahweh

The 'angel of the LORD' is very busy throughout the Old Testament.

The 'angel of the LORD' called to Abraham from heaven. Genesis 22:11

'God,' 'the LORD,' and 'the angel of the LORD,' are used equivalently in the 'burning bush' narrative. Exodus 3:4-6

The 'angel of the LORD' provides military assistance to the Israeli's as they flee Egypt (Exodus 14:19) and leads the attack on Canaan (Ex. 23:20,23; 33:2).

The 'angel of the LORD' kills 70,000 Israeli's (1 Chronicles 21:12) and 30,000 Assyrians (Isaiah 37:36).

If you take 'the angel of the LORD' to be God in human form, then how many times was he incarnated? How many times did he appear in the flesh before becoming known as the man 'Jesus who is called Christ.'?

"O Israel, listen: Jehovah is our God, Jehovah alone." Deuteronomy 6:4 Living Bible

"Thus says the LORD ... 'besides me there is no god.'" Isaiah 44:6 Revised Standard

I realize this is a complex study. The purpose of this post is, if nothing else, to demonstrate that neither the 'three in one' theory nor the 'two in one' theory do justice to the evidence. Is there a multiplicity of gods represented? Certainly. But only the One God for Israel.

------------------
"I was very unwilling to give up my belief." Charles Darwin

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	Message 58 by truthlover, posted 09-11-2003 11:49 PM		truthlover has not replied

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	Message 61 by Prozacman, posted 09-12-2003 2:12 PM		doctrbill has replied

doctrbill

Member (Idle past 2795 days)

Posts: 1174

From: Eugene, Oregon, USA

Joined: 01-08-2001

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Message 64 of 132 (55174)
09-12-2003 11:18 PM

Reply to: Message 61 by Prozacman
09-12-2003 2:12 PM

Re: Are There Two Gods?

Prozacman writes:

It is my understanding that the "Angel of the Lord" may or may not be the Angel that is walking around on the earth in the book of Job, and challenges God to test Job's faith

Actually, the word 'angel' appears only once in the book of Job (4:18). Strangely enough, and I may have to split hairs for truthlover over this, Satan was apparently, in the book of Job, counted among the sons of god.

(many christians believe this angel to be the devil or Satan; meaning accuser in hebrew),

Actually, 'devil' and 'satan' have very different meanings. 'Devil' is given for a Hebrew word for 'goat' (in reference to the LORD's-goat and the scape-goat sacrificed in Jewish rituals) and is literally translated as 'hairy one'.

... in some sense the Judeo-Christian-Islamic World has always had two or more gods.

Indeed. Four gods if you buy into the trinity. The fourth being Satan, the god of evil.

By the way, what does this have to do with being happy in heaven?!

Perhaps nothing. On the other hand, I am wondering which of these gods, if any, are going to be there to greet you? Perhaps none of them. Perhaps the entire scenario is a fantasy based upon a misunderstanding of scripture. That is my opinion; and it seems to me that this would seriously impact one's "happiness in heaven."

------------------
"I was very unwilling to give up my belief." Charles Darwin

This message is a reply to:
	Message 61 by Prozacman, posted 09-12-2003 2:12 PM		Prozacman has replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 66 by Prozacman, posted 09-13-2003 2:36 PM		doctrbill has not replied

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