Dialogue Between Satan and God in the Book of Job

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Bad analogy. Bin-Laden is an enemy, Satan is an employee.

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Heh. Might be a little better than you think. Bin Laden started off as an employee (or at least a client) during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.

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Never believe anything in politics until it has been officially denied. -- Otto von Bismarck

I knew somebody was going to bring that up.... But in the Book of Job, Satan is always an employee.Why else would he be at the board meeting? Was Hitler at Yalta?If anything, Satan's stature decreases in the Book of Job.

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Satan is an evil-doer. God gives him permission to do evil unto His most loyal follower who's done nothing to deserve this evil. In what way does that not make God equally as evil as Satan himself?And, please, lets hold back from going into the moral of the rest of the story.J0N

May be he knew, to begin with, that he was going to lose that bet, but all that he wanted was an oportunity to do some evil with God`s belobed Job. He got that. So he may have won after all.

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But in the Book of Job, Satan is always an employee.

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In fact, a police spy, in the words of Elaine Pagels.

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Never believe anything in politics until it has been officially denied. -- Otto von Bismarck

Where is that indicated in your passage or anywhere in the Book of Job? Chapter and verse? What "evil" is done to Job? What happens to him that doesn't happen to other people every day?As I have said, bad things happened to Job. Big deal. So what? That's part of life. The story is about Job's reaction to misfortune - it's not about "evil".If you think there was something unusual in what happened to him, spell it out. How come you can make up stuff about "evil" that isn't in the story at all and I can't point out that you're wrong?

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Maybe he flew around in a zeppelin dropping silver dollars on the poor - but that isn't in the story and neither is anything about "evil".By the way, how may lobes do you suppose Job had?

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off course you are right. The story is about the fact that bad things can happen to good people and how Job behaved in face of adversity. That doesn`t mute Jon`s point, nevertheless, that, as writen, this bible story shows a god that let himself be manipulated by satan. Why is the story writen like this? My bet is that the people that created that story had a more antropomorfic view of god then most current self-proclaimed bible-bilievers do. Eh?
Sorry, could you explain that questionEdited by fallacycop, : fix quote boxesEdited by fallacycop, : fix jumbled up phrase

ringo's pulling the same shit on you as he did to NJ.you misspelled "beloved", instead writing "belobed".he should perhaps realize that english is not your first language. (am I right on that?)

It isn't mine either - it's just the only one I have left.

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You are quite right. Portuguese is my first language. The missprlling, though, is due to my inability to type efficiently. (I only use my two index fingers)

I agree with what is said above that Job is a poetic book with lessons about suffering, not an attempt to establish theology about satan and God.However, as to your point that satan was manipulating God in the story, Ringo's points are good, that God started all this conversation, bringing it up on purpose. I would add to that the fact that God corrected Job, not satan, at the end of the story. God wanted something from Job. The issue was Job. God brought Job up; satan didn't. God clearly intended for this suffering to happen to Job. He brought Job up repeatedly and let the suffering get worse and worse.You can consider that evil of God. Many do. Many people who have been through great suffering don't. Mother Theresa used to tell the suffering that they were receiving a gift from God that others don't have. You can scoff at that if you want, but the suffering didn't scoff at it. They were helped by it.

The fact that some people were helped in some way by the idea that their suffering is a gift from god doesn`t say anything about whether that is or isn`t true. It easies their pain, no doubt, but it may be just a happy thought, nevertheless.

Satan was not considered a evildoer at the time the book of Job was written. Rather, he was the angel in charge of testing humanity, hence why his title is given as ha-satan, or the adversary. (The same can be seen in the name generally ascribed to him, Samael, or the Venom of God.)Remember, this was at the time when God was considered to be both good and evil.

Just because God started the conversation doesn't mean He cannot be manipulated by Satan. Consider the following analogy.Jon has a very lovely and expensive cars. The girls walking by constantly comment him on his ride. Jon meets Jake as he's getting from his car. Jake is envious of Jon's car, and hates how wonderful it is! Jon says "What do you think of my sweet ride?!"
Jake replies, "You know, it isn't that great without the work. You have to keep it clean and all. What would your car be if you threw a bucket of paint over the top of it?"
Jon's so damn confident of the beauty of his car, that he says back to Jake "Yeah, okay, go ahead, I give you permission to do what you want with it, just don't mess the driver's seat."Who wins here? Who's done the manipulating? Did Jon manipulate Jake? Jake manipulate Jon? Before the actions are commited, and the results accounted for, who has been played for a fool? Who do you think is getting the more sour deal here!?Answering these questions doesn't require that we go on with the rest of the story. The rest of the story is irrelevant in this case, and with the book of Job.Continuing with that point, I would like to ask once again that we stop talking about who ultimately won the competition and keep the focus on who got their way in this little exchange of words.J0N