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Author Topic:   Do we need a better concept than species?
Wounded King
Member
Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 7 of 73 (227369)
07-29-2005 12:42 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by SteveN
07-29-2005 10:08 AM


I don't have any problem with people using species provided they make the neccessary effort to put it into the proper context. Problems only arise when people fail to make it clear how they are using the term. Failure to diferentiate between solely morphologically defined species such as we see in the fossil record and the extant species we study today on whom we have much more in terms of genetic data, and potentially interfertility, only leads to confusion.
Similary failing to differentiate between the different forms of reproductive isolation, such as geographic isolation or pre- and post- mating isolation, can cause a lot of disagreement on what constitutes a real incidence of speciation.
I think most scientists within a field can usually agree on what a species is, it is between the different fields that differences arise as the differing definitions are obviously biased towards the interests of the particular fields. Provided the particular context is made apparent there should be no need for confusion.
TTFN,
WK

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 Message 1 by SteveN, posted 07-29-2005 10:08 AM SteveN has replied

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Wounded King
Member
Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 47 of 73 (228570)
08-01-2005 6:17 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by SteveN
08-01-2005 2:33 PM


Re: After their kind
we may be a bit premature to be making claims of 'speciation' where no irresversible separation of the gene pools has yet occurred.
That is why most studies on this sort of question talk about incipient speciation rather than speciation.
TTFN,
WK

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by SteveN, posted 08-01-2005 2:33 PM SteveN has replied

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Wounded King
Member
Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 60 of 73 (230088)
08-05-2005 9:51 AM
Reply to: Message 58 by robinrohan
08-05-2005 9:32 AM


Re: speciation event
I think you are right, 'event' gives the impression of some some of instantaneous occurrence when it is describing a process taking hundreds or thousands of years at least.
In terms of paleontonlogy the punctated equilibrium theory posits that speciation 'events' occur in a 'geological' instant, i.e. in too short a time period to be resolvable through paleontological methods.
TTFN,
WK
This message has been edited by Wounded King, 08-05-2005 10:38 AM

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 Message 58 by robinrohan, posted 08-05-2005 9:32 AM robinrohan has replied

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 Message 61 by robinrohan, posted 08-05-2005 10:07 AM Wounded King has replied

  
Wounded King
Member
Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 62 of 73 (230114)
08-05-2005 10:55 AM
Reply to: Message 61 by robinrohan
08-05-2005 10:07 AM


Re: speciation event
But the paleontological method would only reveal physical differences, not the gene pool isolation, correct?
Correct, unless these were samples recent enough to allow recovery of some gentic material, as in the case of the neanderthal mtDNA sequences. Such sequences might not completely rule out gene flow, but they could be suggestive.
According to the latter definition, if you had two groups of bears of the same type, one group in Oregon and the other in Vermont, then they would constitute two different species. That doesn't make sense to me.
Generally geographic isolation itself is not considered sufficient to classify different populations as seperate species. If the two populations are subsequently reintroduced to each other and can successfully interbreed then they would not be considered to be seperate species under the biological species concept.
The distinction is more commonly drawn between pre-zygotic, i.e. behavioural or morphological, barriers to reproduction as opposed to post-zygotic, i.e. physiological or genetic or developmental, barriers to reprodcution leading to either a lack of interfertility or a lack of viability or sterility in hybrid offspring.
TTFN,
WK

This message is a reply to:
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