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Author Topic:   Elitism and Nazism
MrHambre
Member (Idle past 1423 days)
Posts: 1495
From: Framingham, MA, USA
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 109 of 125 (56048)
09-17-2003 12:39 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by Syamsu
09-17-2003 12:20 PM


quote:
So as before, similar arguments as I make have been made by mainstream evolutionists. I wouldn't be surprised if there was an essay that said the same thing as I do about selection having to be defined on an individual basis in stead of a comparitive basis, since several evolutionists on this forum have said to me that fundamentally selection should in fact be understood on an individual basis.
Any definition of natural selection that doesn't include variation is meaningless. Many organisms, you'll find, do not reproduce without others of their species, and so the ability you claim to discern anything about the individual organism outside of the context of a population is nonexistent. Populations are composed of variants statistically distributed around a mean, so the notion of a single organism standing for anything except convenient scientific shorthand is impossible to support.
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I would not let the chickens cross the antidote road because I was already hospitlized for trying to say this!-Brad McFall

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Syamsu, posted 09-17-2003 12:20 PM Syamsu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by Syamsu, posted 09-17-2003 2:49 PM MrHambre has replied

  
MrHambre
Member (Idle past 1423 days)
Posts: 1495
From: Framingham, MA, USA
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 111 of 125 (56065)
09-17-2003 2:59 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by Syamsu
09-17-2003 2:49 PM


quote:
I think I can say that a white moth fits a white tree for reproduction, without comparing to variants. I don't think I need the comparison.
Oh, but you do need the comparison. Testing the effects of natural selection would require you to count the moths in a population at various times and know what percentage were white, what percentage black, and so on. The changes in these percentages would determine the outcome of your selection analysis. You probably don't care if they are the same moths at each census, just whether moths sharing certain characteristics seem to be better-represented numerically in subsequent populations.
------------------
I would not let the chickens cross the antidote road because I was already hospitlized for trying to say this!-Brad McFall

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by Syamsu, posted 09-17-2003 2:49 PM Syamsu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by zephyr, posted 09-17-2003 3:43 PM MrHambre has not replied
 Message 113 by Syamsu, posted 09-17-2003 11:35 PM MrHambre has replied

  
MrHambre
Member (Idle past 1423 days)
Posts: 1495
From: Framingham, MA, USA
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 116 of 125 (56205)
09-18-2003 2:16 AM
Reply to: Message 113 by Syamsu
09-17-2003 11:35 PM


quote:
I think I can determine if or not the white wingcolor of the white moth contributes to reproduction of said moth by observing it, without comparing with other moths. That is the meaningful information.
I'm sure you think you can determine that, and you think wrong. You can only determine if the color of the moth contributed to its reproductive success if you have studied a population in which some variants did not share the trait. By observing one organism, you can draw no conclusions about natural selection. That is not meaningful information of any kind.
------------------
I would not let the chickens cross the antidote road because I was already hospitlized for trying to say this!-Brad McFall

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by Syamsu, posted 09-17-2003 11:35 PM Syamsu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 117 by Syamsu, posted 09-18-2003 3:30 AM MrHambre has replied

  
MrHambre
Member (Idle past 1423 days)
Posts: 1495
From: Framingham, MA, USA
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 121 of 125 (56230)
09-18-2003 7:22 AM
Reply to: Message 117 by Syamsu
09-18-2003 3:30 AM


Now There's a Surprise
quote:
Creationist Paley in his main work referenced another creationist
I certainly would have no reason to question the soundness of this citation...
quote:
who noted that each and every attribute of an organism contributes either to survival, or to reproduction in some way, without referring to Natural Selection at all.
Like we've said before, the attributes that contribute to the survival of the organisms which possess them in a population can only be determined after analyzing the entire population at different times for the observed effects of the process of Natural Selection.
quote:
I have no clue what you're talking about saying it is impossible...
You've already long since convinced me of this, Sy.
------------------
I would not let the chickens cross the antidote road because I was already hospitlized for trying to say this!-Brad McFall

This message is a reply to:
 Message 117 by Syamsu, posted 09-18-2003 3:30 AM Syamsu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 123 by Syamsu, posted 09-18-2003 9:43 AM MrHambre has not replied

  
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