|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total) |
| |
ChatGPT | |
Total: 916,902 Year: 4,159/9,624 Month: 1,030/974 Week: 357/286 Day: 13/65 Hour: 0/1 |
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Dinosaurs living with humans? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Look, the Creationists could not even be honest enough to get the locations straight. Tell you what. That would be a pretty significant find. Check all the literature for Dinosaur National Monument and see if they mention it.
Nuff said. It's crap. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Asgara Member (Idle past 2331 days) Posts: 1783 From: Wisconsin, USA Joined: |
I thought you said a paleotologist???
Last I heard, Patton was waiting on a PhD in geology from a non-accredited school...and that was several years ago. Asgara "Embrace the pain, spank your inner moppet, whatever....but get over it" http://asgarasworld.bravepages.com
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
He says he got his PhD in Education in 1993. No University is shown.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Hangdawg13 Member (Idle past 780 days) Posts: 1189 From: Texas Joined: |
After this little debate, I've realized that it all comes down to pitting one person's word against another. Anyone will choose to believe what he wants to regardless of the facts and there will always be some "credible" website or person who will support any predetermined viewpoint. I'm sure you can find plenty of people who say the holocaust never happened and Jesus Christ never lived despite that evidence as well.
In fact if a person has enough faith in the flood or in evolution one can see whatever the hell one likes from any print or fossil despite what might actually be there. All I can say is that I've seen many pictures of the evidence and there is no doubt in my mind nor can there be any doubt in any sane person's mind who has seen the same that these are human and dinosaur prints.There is a truth to every matter and anyone who objectively searches for it will find it. "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing, but the honor of kings to search out a matter." Proverbs 25:2
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
sidelined Member (Idle past 5937 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
Is it possible to hold a Phd and not really know what you are talking about? Say it isn't so!{crying children in the background,explosions, gnashing of teeth.}NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!{Picture Homer Simpson running into the distance}
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
JonF Member (Idle past 197 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
At Dinosaur National Monument 10 human skeletons (men women and children) have been recovered from the same rock as many dinosaurs 50 feet below the surface. The fossilized bones were discovered in 1970 when miners uncovered them. The overlying rock was so hard that the mine was abandoned in 1930 because it was tearing up their equipment, so there is no chance this was a burial ground. There is no evidence of a fissure or crack that they might have fallen into. This has also never been successfully refuted by evoltionists That one is so old and tired ... but then, all creationsit material is. You are referring to "Malachite man", presented at Official World Site Malachite Man and copied in many other places. Essentially all of what you write is incorrect. "Malachite man" is a re-surfacing of "Moab man" after the latter find was completely debunked. There were two skeletions, not ten. They were found in loose sandstone, 15 feet down, uncovered by bulldozers, in 1971, by a local rockhound. They were not fossilized. They were found in poses characteristic of Native American burial. Here is a picture of Lin Ottinger, the rockhound who discovered "Moab man", working on one of the skeletons with a brush and trowel (which are useless in the hard rock that you claimed the skeletons were found in):
Here is a picture of "Malachite man" from the site listed above: Click for larger version Note the identical shirt and bones. This is all discussed in more detail at The Life and Death of Malachite Man, a six-year-old page by Glenn Kuban, the same guy who figured out Paluxy.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Hangdawg13 Member (Idle past 780 days) Posts: 1189 From: Texas Joined: |
He also spent 4 years studying geology at Peay State University TN and Indiana University/Purdue University, Indianapolis IN
He worked as a geologist in the US, Canada, Australia, England, Mexico, Peru, and Bolivia. He participated in dinosaur excavations in Colorado, Texas, Utah, Wyoming, and Canada. He was a member of the Geological Society of America and was a speaker at their '97 annual convention Salt Lake City. He has lectured at seven universities as well has numerous public debates. He is presently a consulting geologist and partner in Mazada Corp. Dallas Tx, staff geologist at a museum at Glenn Rose, TX, Chairman of Metroplex Insititue of Origiin Science. "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing, but the honor of kings to search out a matter." Proverbs 25:2
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
In fact if a person has enough faith in the flood or in evolution one can see whatever the hell one likes from any print or fossil despite what might actually be there. People can look at the absolute overwhelming evidence for old earth, old universe, evolution and yet still believe in Genesis and the Flood. It is amazing. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Hangdawg13 Member (Idle past 780 days) Posts: 1189 From: Texas Joined: |
Hmm these are not the same photos I saw at Patton's presentation. The two arguments are totally contradictory... again its simply one person's word over another.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Hangdawg13 Member (Idle past 780 days) Posts: 1189 From: Texas Joined: |
You claim to have seen these prints at Glenrose yet still refuse to believe they are human. That to me is also amazing.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
sidelined Member (Idle past 5937 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
HangDawg13
After this little debate, I've realized that it all comes down to pitting one person's word against another. Oh Please.As the saying goes you are entitled to have your own opinion but you are not entitled to your own facts.Evidence is the only means by which the resolution of an arguement is clarified.If you think there is no hoax then by all means get in contact with the various parties involved and then investigate.Learn how the actual science and evidence is investigated by the people who dedicate their careers and time to investigation.
I'm sure you can find plenty of people who say the holocaust never happened and Jesus Christ never lived despite that evidence as well The holocaust has innumerable sources of verification. Can you provide a historical document seperate from the Bible itself that backs up it's claim of their being a person named Jesus Christ?If not then how can you say that there is evidence of such? In fact if a person has enough faith in the flood or in evolution one can see whatever the hell one likes from any print or fossil despite what might actually be there Faith has bugger all to do with it. Evidence is the only thing that allows us to back up a claim.The flood is so far down the scale of likelihood as to be its own worst enemy.Evolution has obviously occured.What is disputed is the model we have built to explain the evolution that we see occuring as well as that which has occured. There are a dozen different science disciplines with mountains of evidence from a thousand different converging systems of data.They all agree to a high degree of confidence.
All I can say is that I've seen many pictures of the evidence and there is no doubt in my mind nor can there be any doubt in any sane person's mind who has seen the same that these are human and dinosaur prints. Of course there is no doubt in your mind for you are not a scientist,nor even curious. Doubt is the key that seperates thinking people from puppets. "Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts. "
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
it will really be an education.
When I was just a little sprout my family would pile us all into the car and drive south from Baltimore to an area called Calvert Cliffs. It was always an amazing trip. At that time there was a fair sized beach and even at high tide, you could get to the base of the cliff. It was always one of our favorite days. I was old enough that I would try to climb the cliff going from fossil clam shell to shark tooth to the next clam shell. The sharks teeth were really big, far bigger than both my hand put together. And the clams were bigger than my head. Later I lived in Arizona and got to wander down into some fairsized canyons, to actually see the layer on layer of rock. I got to trek around the Petrified Forest and even found a few fossils on my own. I've seen the evidence for evolution, seen it first hand. No slide shows. Nobody with a vested interest in selling fairytales in church basements. I have lived through two earthquakes, felt the mountains lifted up, known the power involved. I KNOW that plate techtonics are real. First hand, no movies, no slide shows. That ANYONE can doubt evolution is not just amazing, it shows a total and stunning ability to deny the truth. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Ediacaran Inactive Member |
Regarding creationist Don Patton -
Hangdawg writes: He also spent 4 years studying geology at Peay State University TN and Indiana University/Purdue University, Indianapolis INHe worked as a geologist in the US, Canada, Australia, England, Mexico, Peru, and Bolivia. He participated in dinosaur excavations in Colorado, Texas, Utah, Wyoming, and Canada. I see you didn't read the article on Carl Baugh's bogus degrees, or you would have seen the section on his buddy Don Patton's bogus degrees. Here's an excerpt from what Glen Kuban wrote regarding creationist Don Patton (the article is copyright 1989 by Glen Kuban, and is found at http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/paluxy/degrees.html):
Don Patton's Alleged Credentials Since early 1989, Don Patton, a close associate of Carl Baugh and leader of Metroplex Institute of Origins Science (MIOS) near Dallas, has claimed a Ph.D. (or "Ph.D. candidacy") in geology from Queensland Christian University in Australia.[33] However, QCU is another unaccredited school linked to Clifford Wilson. [34] When questioned about this at a recent MIOS meeting, Patton indicated that he was aware of some problems relating to QCU, and was withdrawing his Ph.D. candidacy.[35] However, the printed abstracts of the 1989 Bible-Science conference in Dayton, Tennessee (where Patton gave two talks) stated that he was a Ph.D. candidacy in geology, and implied that he has at least four degrees from three separate schools.[36] When I asked Patton for clarification on this during the conference, he stated that he had no degrees, but was about to receive a Ph.D. degree in geology, pending accreditation of QCU, which he assured me was "three days away."[37] Many days have since passed, and Patton still has no valid degree in geology. Nor is the accreditation of QCU imminent. Australian researcher Ian Plimer reported, "PCI, QPU, PCT, and PCGS have no formal curriculum, no classes, no research facilities, no calendar, no campus, and no academic staff....Any Ph.D. or Ph.D. candidacy at QPU by Patton is fraudulent."[38]" I've included the footnotes, since most of the same alleged degrees mentioned by Hangdawg are refuted there.
[33] Patton made this claim at some MIOS meetings attended by Ron Hastings. A video tape distributed by MIOS in 1989 stated that Patton had a doctorate degree in geology, although MIOS leaders later told Hastings that this was an error, and that they meant to state that Patton was a "Ph.D candidate" (Ron Hastings, communication).
[34] Plimer, Ian, FAX transmission from Australia, August 14, 1989.
[35] Hastings, Ron, personal communication, August 1989.
[36] Bryan '89, National Conference on Biblical Origins, August 10-12, 1989, at Bryan College, Dayton, Tennessee, sponsored by the Bible-Science Association and Bryan College, printed program and abstracts, p. 20. The program stated (misspelling Patton's name): "Mr. Patton received degrees from Florida College, Tampa, Florida, and he also received a degree in Geology from Austin Peay in Tennessee and from Indiana State University. He is in the final step of obtaining his doctoral degree from Queensland University in Australia." The person introducing Patton before his talk corrected the misspelling of Patton's name but not the errors regarding his degrees.
[37] Personal communication, Don Patton, August 12, 1989. Patton made what I consider his most revealing comment when I asked him whether he thought misrepresenting credentials in general was a serious matter. Patton replied that to him it was not, since it is a matter of "buyer beware." (Evidently he considers the public to be "buyers"). Buyer beware indeed!
[38] See reference 34. ---However much Patton claims to have studied geology, he apparently doesn't have any degrees in the field. The education PhD he alleges to have is from a so-called "university" set up by his creationist colleague, Clifford Wilson. Despite not having a Ph.D. in geology, Patton hands out business cards which read: _MAZADA CORPORATION_DON R. PATTON, PH.D Consulting Geologist 813 Trails Parkway Garland, TX 75043 (214)279-5325 Pretty misleading, huh? This is an old card, the area code may have changed by now. I've been to Glen Rose, I've seen the dino tracks at Dinosaur Valley and at the McFall site. There are no fossil "mantracks" there. There aren't fossil "womantracks" either, despite Carl Baugh's claims.
Hangdawg writes: He is presently a consulting geologist and partner in Mazada Corp. Dallas Tx, staff geologist at a museum at Glenn Rose, TX, Chairman of Metroplex Insititue of Origiin Science. The "museum" is creationist Carl Baugh's Creation Evidences Museum: when I last visited, it was a double-wide trailer with a few fossils, a creationist mural, a hyperbaric chamber with some poisonous snakes, an aquarium, and a cheap audio range oscilloscope to make the whole shebang appear scientific to the gullible fundamentalists that make up the bulk of the audience. The "Metroplex Institute of Origin Science" is simply a monthly meeting of Young-Earth creationists at whatever facility they can schedule, since the "Institute" doesn't have its own building; they used to meet at a recreation center near White Rock Lake in Dallas, but lately they've been meeting at a medical office building after work hours.
Hangdawg writes: He was a member of the Geological Society of America and was a speaker at their '97 annual convention Salt Lake City. He has lectured at seven universities as well has numerous public debates. As for membership in that fine organization, the Geological Society of America, you, too, can be a member - just send your membership fee of $65 or $30, depending on membership type. You don't even have to be a geologist (degreed or make-believe) to join, as long as you have $30. Join at
404
I see that Patton "was" a member, according to your post - is that because he paid his 30$ or so for one year, then stopped? I suppose if I talk to someone while on a campus, I can be said to have "lectured" there. Wow, I've lectured at at least 7 universities too! And since I've argued in public with several creationists, I've "lectured at numerous public debates", too! See how that creationist doublespeak works? Now, all I have to do is send 30$ to GSA, print up some misleading business cards, pick up a rock and look at it for signs of dinosaurs whenever I travel by car through several states or travel abroad (to be involved in "dinosaur excavations"), and I can be a "PhD" on par with Patton! Oops, I don't have any bogus degrees, though. Blasted accreditation! I guess I could send money to one of Clifford Wilson's unaccredited diploma mills... Nah.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Hangdawg13 Member (Idle past 780 days) Posts: 1189 From: Texas Joined: |
To believe in evolution requires an act of pure faith. The probabilities of life forming by chance and then evolving are so small that they become impossible even with the allotted billions of years of time. They are refuted by the cambrian explosion, lack of intermediary fossils, and out of place fossils (such as the human footprints at Glenrose). I've done a very little fossil hunting in West Texas and found lots of shells and coral. From what I understand 95 % of all fossils found thus far are marine and only .0125% are vertebrates and these from a hodge podge of different sites. One does not go to the grand canyon and see bacteria turning into mammals as one walks the trail up the wall, nor does one take a core sample of the roughly two miles of sedimentary layers around the earth and find this occuring.
I once believed in evolution because thats what I was taught in school. I thought it didn't really make complete sense, but I could imagine it happening. Thats all evolutionists can do, really, is imagine chemicals forming handed amino acid chains and imagine these chains forming protiens and imagine these protiens somehow forming a living replicating cell many times more complex than the space shuttle, and then imagine this cell increasing its complexity making huge leaps and bounds. This is statistically impossible and yet amazingly we exist in all our splendor along with a certain number of phyla of animals (which are becoming extinct much faster than are being created), so this must mean beyond all probability that evolution occured.Doesn't this strike anyone else as oddly unscientific? I mean I realized I'm outclassed and out-gunned by people who have done a lot more of this debating than I have, but come on! Evolutionists like to dignify their theory by saying it is supported by mountains of evidence all the while refusing to admit that in the end their theory boils down to a simple act of faith. I spose i've opened up a whole new can of worms; however I still would like for someone to go to Glenrose and place their feet in the footprints and come back believing they aren't human footprints. This message has been edited by Hangdawg13, 05-31-2004 12:59 AM This message has been edited by Hangdawg13, 05-31-2004 01:01 AM
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
crashfrog Member (Idle past 1496 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
The probabilities of life forming by chance and then evolving are so small that they become impossible even with the allotted billions of years of time. Oh yeah? Exactly what are the probabilities? Numbers, please, and I'd like to see your math. How small a probability is "impossible"?
They are refuted by the cambrian explosion The "explosion" you refer to constitutes a time period several million years long. To put that into perspective, a lot of the plant species you're familiar with day-to-day are significantly younger than that.
lack of intermediary fossils No such lack. Transitional Vertebrate Fossils FAQ. As you can see, among the species we would expect to fossilize - vertebrates - we find a number of transitional forms.
(such as the human footprints at Glenrose). This is just a flat-out lie. There's no such footprints.
I once believed in evolution because thats what I was taught in school. Well, no wonder you're a creationist - you believe things for the wrong reasons. Around here, you'll find that evolutionists are convinced by evidence, not by authority or pedanticism. Care to provide some evidence?
This is statistically impossible There's that argument from statistics, again, but you keep forgetting to actually give any statistics. Why is that, exactly?
however I still would like for someone to go to Glenrose and place their feet in the footprints and come back believing they aren't human footprints. I've seen pictures of the "footprints" you're talking about - the 20" long ones, right? - and I don't see how anybody but an idiot can come to the conclusion that an enormous, misshapen, eroded pit with no visible toeprints, heel depression, or instep is supposed to be a "human footprint." Unless you're talking about different prints, or something. It'd be nice if you could hit us with pictures.
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024