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Author Topic:   Is bacterial resistance really due to mutation?
Wounded King
Member
Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 12 of 27 (198856)
04-13-2005 4:49 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Martin245
04-12-2005 10:33 PM


For a specific example of experimental evolution of antibiotic resistance I would direct you to this paper which I previously referenced in the 'Natural Limitation to Evolutionary Processes' thread.
Evolution of drug resistance in experimental populations of Candida albicans.Cowen LE, Sanglard D, Calabrese D, Sirjusingh C, Anderson JB, Kohn LM.
J Bacteriol. 2000 Mar;182(6):1515-22.
Adaptation to inhibitory concentrations of the antifungal agent fluconazole was monitored in replicated experimental populations founded from a single, drug-sensitive cell of the yeast Candida albicans and reared over 330 generations. The concentration of fluconazole was maintained at twice the MIC in six populations; no fluconazole was added to another six populations. All six replicate populations grown with fluconazole adapted to the presence of drug as indicated by an increase in MIC; none of the six populations grown without fluconazole showed any change in MIC. In all populations evolved with drug, increased fluconazole resistance was accompanied by increased resistance to ketoconazole and itraconazole; these populations contained ergosterol in their cell membranes and were amphotericin sensitive. The increase in fluconazole MIC in the six populations evolved with drug followed different trajectories, and these populations achieved different levels of resistance, with distinct overexpression patterns of four genes involved in azole resistance: the ATP-binding cassette transporter genes, CDR1 and CDR2; the gene encoding the target enzyme of the azoles in the ergosterol biosynthetic pathway, ERG11; and the major facilitator gene, MDR1. Selective sweeps in these populations were accompanied by additional genomic changes with no known relationship to drug resistance: loss of heterozygosity in two of the five marker genes assayed and alterations in DNA fingerprints and electrophoretic karyotypes. These results show that chance, in the form of mutations that confer an adaptive advantage, is a determinant in the evolution of azole drug resistance in experimental populations of C. albicans.
I realise that this example is for a yeast rather than a bacteria but the principle is the same.
The authors use exactly the sort of clonal expansion Crashfrog has already detailed. They get around the problem you put forward of killing off all the non-resistant cells by using a dose equivalent to the yeast strains Minimium Inhibitory Concentration (MIC). An MIC dose will prevent the growth of a culture but does not neccessarily kill that culture off. The minimum lethal dose to kill off the culture, or Minimum Bacteriocidal Concentration (MBC), may coincide with the MIC for some antibiotics (Bacteriocidals) but not for all (Bacteriostatics).
If a dosage less than the MBC is used then you can tell that resistance is present in certain populations as they will have developed elevated MICs.
TTFN,
WK

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 Message 6 by Martin245, posted 04-12-2005 10:33 PM Martin245 has not replied

  
Wounded King
Member
Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 18 of 27 (244076)
09-16-2005 7:39 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by christ_fanatic
09-16-2005 7:04 AM


Re: Viruses and bacteria.
I'm not sure what you are trying to say, your post seems rather confused.
Penicillin does not have no effect on viruses due to some sort of resistance, it has no effect because it works by blocking the production of the bacterial cell wall, since viruses don't have any such structure they are obviously unaffected.
It is certainly true that viruses can also be shown to develop resistance to antivirals, but I can't work out what you consider the difference to be between the origin of resistanc in bacteria nd viruses. I would suggest that bacteria, having plasmids, are more likely to spread resistance laterally than viruses, but as for the origin and general inheritance, I can't see why these should be any different.
Many of the experiments done by scientists to show how mutations can add info have been extremely controversial.
Would you like to expand on this point, detailing specific experiments and the points of controversy?
TTFN,
WK

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by christ_fanatic, posted 09-16-2005 7:04 AM christ_fanatic has replied

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 Message 19 by christ_fanatic, posted 09-16-2005 1:38 PM Wounded King has replied

  
Wounded King
Member
Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 20 of 27 (244174)
09-16-2005 2:07 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by christ_fanatic
09-16-2005 1:38 PM


Re: Viruses and bacteria.
Sounds like your doctor was either lazy or perhaps thought your viral infection might leave you open to opportunistic bacterial infection.
There was an experiment with the flu(? It may have been a bacterial infection not a virus) virus that was extracted from a ship that was ravaged by a disease while it was headed toward the antarctic. The disease killed everyone (no known survivors at least). When it was extracted, the scientists compared it's reaction to antibioitics with the reaction of a modern strain of the same disease. In their results, the extracted strain survived, while the modern strain didn't. But they reported their finding's as the other way around, and when they were exposed, they admitted their wrongdoing.
This isn't a usable reference. I have no idea where to begin searching for anything to verify this claim.
Even the article you reference only mentions the 1918 Flu virus as an example of a virus, it gives no details of any experiment to compare modern strains with the 1918 virual strain.
Do you have any actual information on either of these two experiments?
TTFN,
WK

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by christ_fanatic, posted 09-16-2005 1:38 PM christ_fanatic has replied

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Wounded King
Member
Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 25 of 27 (244315)
09-17-2005 8:29 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by christ_fanatic
09-16-2005 9:15 PM


Re: Viruses and bacteria.
Could this be what you are thinking of in relation to the 1918 Spanish flu?
The original research (Gamblin, et al., 2004) was published in Science, so you will need a subscription to see the whole article. The abstract reas as follows...
The 1918 influenza pandemic resulted in about 20 million deaths. This enormous impact, coupled with renewed interest in emerging infections, makes characterization of the virus involved a priority. Receptor binding, the initial event in virus infection, is a major determinant of virus transmissibility that, for influenza viruses, is mediated by the hemagglutinin (HA) membrane glycoprotein. We have determined the crystal structures of the HA from the 1918 virus and two closely related HAs in complex with receptor analogs. They explain how the 1918 HA, while retaining receptor binding site amino acids characteristic of an avian precursor HA, is able to bind human receptors and how, as a consequence, the virus was able to spread in the human population.
So this discusses the molecular basis of the virulence of the 1918 strain in humans, but it doesn't say anything about viricidal resistance.
Is this what you were thinking of perhaps?
TTFN,
WK

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by christ_fanatic, posted 09-16-2005 9:15 PM christ_fanatic has replied

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