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Author | Topic: The boasts of atheists (Atheist self-deception) | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
purpledawn Member (Idle past 3485 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
quote:I've seen these types of responses in various threads and they don't appear to be unsolicited boasts, they appear to be testimony to refute assertions or comments that have been made concerning morality or atheists. BTW, when you provide the quotes, please also provide the question or statement that precipitated the response.
quote:Why? People, regardless of their belief system or lack thereof, know that they live out their lives, have some good times and bad times, and if they are fortunate they grow old and die. So what is your point? I seriously doubt that the response you dictate would be a correct response to the questions or statements that precipitated the "boasts" that you find annoying. "Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3485 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
The claim that morality cannot exist without belief in an archaic mythology is simply false. By my own existence as an atheist and a man of exemplary moral character, my existence (as well as the vast number of moral atheists out there) I disprove the first premise. Thus, the entire argument is invalid. The author used himself as an example to disprove this premise:
1. If God exists, then God and God alone decides what is (truly) right and wrong. Without God there could be no ultimate standards of morality. Just because you don't know anyone with a moral character worth imitating (exemplary), doesn't mean that those people don't exist. His statement also doesn't mean that he's never had to weather life's storms. He's not saying that everything always works out perfectly for him. So why do you feel the need to regurgitate because someone claims:
I have no criminal record. I have committed no crimes that aren't victimless (such as speeding). I sacrifice for the good of others in various ways. I am honest and care for people in my locality. I am the best, most loyal friend you will ever have if you are so lucky as to earn my regard. I have a carefully considered moral code that I adhere to strenuously. "Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3485 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
quote:IMO, you're reading more into the statement than is there. In this case, the person is correcting what she perceives to be a misconception. Your words often contradict life light. Not that I am a saint (although semantically speaking, I am). How wrong you are. I love life with robust enthusiasm, be it in appreciation for the sunshine after a week of cloudy skies, or in the intellectual pleasure of vigorous disagreement here at EvC. It is all part of the wonder of living... Because of the nature of this forum, we don't really "know" people. We can't visually see how they behave or conduct their life. We have one very limited view of their persona. Boasting or bragging carries the idea of flaunting or "puffing up". You still haven't explained why you believe these people are "flaunting" their happiness or goodness given the statements they were responding to? One reads like testimony and the other seems to be correcting an misconception. "Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3485 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
quote:I have that impression also.
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3485 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
quote:Maybe you did, but exemplary doesn't mean flawless. Everyone has flaws. As I said in Message 17, just because you don't know anyone with a moral character worth imitating (exemplary), doesn't mean that those people don't exist. As I said in Message 41, boasting or bragging carries the idea of flaunting or "puffing up". The examples you gave weren't flaunting anything. They were responding to the discussion. Please show how their posts exuded pride or that they were flaunting their virtues. "Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3485 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
No it isn't self praise. Otherwise every time we go on a job interview we are boasting. There is more to boasting.
Boasting to puff oneself up in speech: speak vaingloriously... Your examples were in response to a discussion and weren't done to flaunt, IMO. "Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3485 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
quote:I've found that attitude more prevalent among those who have come to Christianity later in life or after turmoil. Churches I've been in teach for us to be an example.
1 Timothy 4:12 Let no one look down on your youthfulness, but rather in speech, conduct, love, faith and purity, show yourself an example of those who believe. My father never was a proponent of the "Do as I say, but not as I do" school of thought.
quote: I'm not sure why you would think a believer would accept that they are morally bankrupt after they have accepted Christ, when with the acceptance of Christ into your life God writes the "laws" on your heart.
Romans 6:12-13 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts, and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. Churches I've belonged to taught that God writes his morals on our hearts and the Holy Spirit convicts us of that which we need to change in our lives to bring us in line with those morals. We shed the old self and God helps us to build a new self. "Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3485 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
So it sounds like atheists boast how good they are and Christians boast how bad they are.
Interesting. "Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3485 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
quote:The author gave you an example of his moral character. You don't feel that what he listed is worth emulating? I have no criminal record. I have committed no crimes that aren't victimless (such as speeding). I sacrifice for the good of others in various ways. I am honest and care for people in my locality. I am the best, most loyal friend you will ever have if you are so lucky as to earn my regard. I have a carefully considered moral code that I adhere to strenuously. quote:The author said nothing about constant awe. Besides, unless you actually have met this person and know them personally, you really don't know that they are exaggerating. I love life with robust enthusiasm, be it in appreciation for the sunshine after a week of cloudy skies, or in the intellectual pleasure of vigorous disagreement here at EvC. It is all part of the wonder of living... Again, just because you don't know anyone like that or feel it is impossible, doesn't mean that it is. "Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3485 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
quote:Yes I did read his description. But you didn't answer my question. purpledawn writes: You don't feel that what he listed is worth emulating? quote: What? You don't believe people can be loyal friends either? "Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3485 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
quote:That's nothing more than respect. Don't get hungup on the fancy wording. Are you loyal to everyone you meet or only those you respect and consider close friends? It would be difficult for me to be close friends with someone I don't respect. "Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz
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