The Whole Jesus Thing

Ramoss,Paul didn't have to go outside of Judaism for converts because of what you said. One of Paul's purposes was specifically to reach the Gentiles:Acts 9:13-22:

Ramoss,If you have these kinds of doubts about the bible, why do you even bother debating it's content?

so, when you said you can 'see it', what you really meant was 'you can imagine it', or 'you can wish it was there'.I'm sorry but if the words aren't there, I can't see it. It's as simple as that.

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"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

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I beg to differ, the Old Law consists of the entire Old Testament. I say this because there are laws (commandments) in each book. Jesus simply fulfilled the Old Law, therefore making a New Law.

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The Law consists of the Mosaic Laws of the Jews and the Oral Law. It is not considered to be the entire Old Testament.

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Have you ever read the Bible with an open mind

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I have over 40 years of Christianity, Bible Study, and Church involvement under my belt. I do understand the reality of the Bible. I do read with an open mind.Understanding the writings in the Bible as they were intended for the people they were written for, does not mean I am "against" the Bible. I don't, however, support religious dogma and tradition.

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I accept your 'may' as your belief, in return you should except my 'may' as mine.

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My may is a possible theory not a belief.You obviously do not intend to clarify your vague answers.So good luck on the forum.

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A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.

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The Law consists of the Mosaic Laws of the Jews and the Oral Law. It is not considered to be the entire Old Testament.

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It is fine with me that you believe this way, actually most people do, so you are of the majority. However I did clarify for you what was meant when I said it.

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I have over 40 years of Christianity, Bible Study, and Church involvement under my belt. I do understand the reality of the Bible. I do read with an open mind.

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That's great! But unfortunatly, it doesn't mean that you are always right, it doesn't mean that you are always wrong either.

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I don't, however, support religious dogma and tradition.

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So, like me, you learn for yourself. I have no objections to this, and wish more people would do the same.

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My may is a possible theory not a belief.

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That is an interesting statement, and would love for you to clarify it. It sure would clear up alot of everyones answers, if you have some proof of your beliefs! You see, anyone who studies, discusses, thinks about, etc. ANYTHING to do with God, or the Bible in general, are making assumptions (aka. belief). I would love to hear the physical proof that you have that makes it a theory and not a belief!?!?

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You obviously do not intend to clarify your vague answers.

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What exactly haven't I answered? The one where I said 'if you can't see it...'? I explained then, as I will again, that's the only answer that I can give. Hmmm...so let me get this straight, since I can't explain it in a way that makes sense to you, and forgo all of the back and forthness (attempted anyway, it's easy to see that it didn't turn out that way) I haven't explained myself? I tried, so what else, you want me to make up my own 'theory'? I think not, because to have a theory you need proof, physical proof to prove it, can you please, again share this proof?

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So good luck on the forum.

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Yes, thanks! ( even though you didn't mean it )

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Angel

Me for one! Why anyone should die for what others do? If you came home from church on sunday and I was standing there in front on your newly mowed yard and demanded payment, would you pay me?

Let me ask you the same question though in slightly different terms. If that happemed would you thank the person that mowed your yard?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

you're actually both wrong, and i can say this with a reasonable degree of certainty.when jesus says "The Law" he's saying it either in hebrew or aramaic. the hebrew word for law is "Torah." maybe you've heard this term before. he tends to refer to "The Law" in conjunction with "The Prophets." the hebrew word for prophet is "navi" but in plural, "Nevi'im," it's the section of the tanakh that comes after the torah, and includes books like joshua, judged, kings, and isaiah.it's pretty clear that he's refering to these two collections of books, and not just accidentally using their names. he's not refering to commandments, laws, oral law (talmud), or anything else. he means the books of moses.

If you're the scapegoat to often you may become the sacrificial lamb.

funny the word has a biblical origin.

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Lev 16:8 And Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats; one lot for the LORD, and the other lot for the scapegoat.

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but the kjv and several other translations messed it up. the word comes from the words for "goat" and "go away." but it's a noun. it's the thing that makes the goats go away. more importantly, the word is a proper name: aza'zel.this is something that eats goats at the hebrew encampment unless one is sent off to it. maybe it's the chupacabra, but the people who wrote the book of enoch had another opinion.in enoch, aza'zel is one of the 200 angels who rebel against the lord, and have sex with earthly women (see genesis 6). in particular, aza'zel is the one who teaches mankind to make weapons to combat their giant nephilim offspring. for this crime, he is cast into the pit of hell.in other words, "the scapegoat" is a demon who eats goats. so no, it is not better.

I wont expect you to understand everything I say but here is my take on the subject. The real gift here is the way salvation is now obtained. Before the sacrifice, the only way you could get into heaven was following very very strict guidelines and rules which by the way many people coudnt follow(holliness is no piece of cake). Before the scrifice the only way for obtaining forgiveness of sins was through the secrifice of certain animals (if this applied today, the animal rights groups would have us go to jail. Asking god for forgiveness would be a crime). We now have the gift of being able to ask for forgiveness without killing animals and we can go directly into God's presence with a little humility and an honest heart. And now salvation is obtained by maintaning a personal relationship with God where forgiveness is the center of salvation not perfection like in the old testament days. He was God trapped in a man's body. So the answer is yes. Basically he took the punishment that we deserved if we were living in the old testament days so that he could ease the way to him like we now have. He didnt. The romans did that. .I dont know what apease means (english is not my first language). His sacrifice delivers a messege of perseverance. He demostrated with his sacrifice that beating the desires of our flesh is possible. He showed us that it is possible to kill ourselves (desire to do what is wrong). His sacrifice is a model of what the christian lifestlye is supossed to be. Jesus didnt want to be crucified. He asked the father to release him from his duty but he sacrificed himself to do what was right. Thats the example we should follow. We have to sacrifice our desires to do what is incorrect in order to do what is right. Jesus also never sinned. he lived the old testament lifestyle which was impossible to almost everybody to perfection but his experience as a man made him see how difficult it is for us to resist temptation and that is why forgiveness is now the center of salvation. Because he will never go over man's right to decide what man really wants. God wants you to accept him out of free will and to live by his standards by your own free will without making you be anything. This is one of the most stupid things ive ever heard. I dont blame you for getting upset or confussed over this nonsense.

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Ponlo todo en las manos de Dios y que se joda el mundo. El principio de la sabiduria es el temor a Jehova

You are misunderstanding the Tanakah (I.E. the old testament). Some of the laws are in the Torah (the pentach), but there is also a strong oral tradition. The Prophets and the Writings are not part of the Torah.MOre information can be found at Torah - Judaism 101 (JewFAQ)

And of course, that makes Jesus the son of man.. and psalm 146:3 says
DO NOT PUT YOUR FAITH IN PRINCES, OR IN THE SON OF MAN, IN WHOM THERE IS NO SALVATION.

Well, that is what writer of the Gospel of John claims. However, the gospel of John was written between 90 and 120 C.E. and I don't think is
an accurate reprentation of events.

Well, then why did he? He got rid of the laws that were so very important to the Jewish faith in effort to get Gentile converts.Those followers of James apprently stayed devote Jews.. and the followers of Paul started diverging from it.