The Whole Jesus Thing

May I humbly suggest that if this thread is to take any theologically plotted course that someone with knowledge of the Jewish ideas relative to the period 500 BCE through 70 CE and regarding atonement educate us regarding sacrifices appropriate for absolving sin, and then the rest of us sail on from there.[This message has been edited by Abshalom, 12-08-2003]

Yaro:I think all gods commonly worshipped at about the same time in Canaan and the Levant required burnt offerings of animal parts. Most of the temples unearthed in that region follow approximately the same floor plan (three rooms) with about the same entrance portico, column style, etc. Many of the temples, shrines, and offering mounts unearthed so far were outfitted with sacrificial altars resembling those specifically detailed in the Bible.My understanding is that various animals and various specific body parts and pieces were prefered by various gods. By the time Leviticus was written, apparently the sacrificial ceremonies performed for YHWH required very specific animals and animal parts for specific atonements, etc.However, I am not educated sufficiently to render theological conclusions regarding the appropriate offerings for "atonement of sin" to answer the original question posed in this thread. I only assume there is a forum member who has answers or opinions relative to the symbolism apparent in such references as "Lamb," "Blood of the Lamb," "Sins of the World," etc.[This message has been edited by Abshalom, 12-08-2003]

Yaro: I do not know, but let's consider a few things:1) The first act of creation: "Let there be light!" What is the only ancient manmade source of light? Fire. What better way to worship a god than to attempt to imitate his first creation.2) An ancient, and archaeologically documented Canaanite ritual, also commonly practiced by Phoenicians and Carthageneans (same root stock) was to "pass the first born child though the flame" or in other words, the sacrifice of children by fire. This ritual is referred to in the Hebrew Bible as one of the abominations practiced by Canaanite Ba-alists. As you know, old habits die hard. Take for example the favored method of Christian conversion of pagans ... to encorporate their ritualistic practices via a more acceptable rite.3) As far as "fat" being used for the offering, what better fuel to sustain the burning of flesh to ash than fat? Ever burned a burger? Which burgers burn to cinder faster ... ground round or high-fat ground beef?

Dr. Bill:This is not intended as a refutation of your post just above. I think you make a lot of sense. But let me offer this more simple take:Exodus 7, v.1: (God) said to Moses: "See, I will make you as a god for Pharoah, and Aaron you brother will be your prophet."An alternative translation is "I will make you as an oracle for Pharoah ..." See also Exodus 4, v. 16: "He (Aaron) shall speak for you to the people (Hebrews), he shall be for you a mouth (spokesman) and you shall be for him a god (alternatively, "oracle").Backing up to verse 10, it appears that Moses was "not a man of words" and was "heavy of mouth and heavy of tongue" indicating maybe a speech impediment that he was using as an excuse to skirt the task of confronting the Pharoah.To reinforce Moses confidence, God calls him an "oracle" and points out that brother Aaron can act as his spokesperson or "prophet" (like the ringleader, carnival barker or M.C. of the Moses and Bros. Travelling Medicine Show) until such time as Moses worked his snake magic and subsequent marvelous acts, thereby "appearing as if a god to the pharoah."

From Post #26, note, " ... according to what Yeshua said about the seed that is sown, that is stolen by "birds." So, hang it out there!" Stephen ben Yeshua.Oy vey, y'all better get ready for a whopper!Lemme guess. The birds stole the seeds of faith that were sown by the students of Rabbi Yeshua. Those seeds now souring in the gullets of birds cannot sprout, grow to fruition, and reseed new grains of truth. [an aside: If the birds only ate 10%, can we write the loss off to tything?]So, who's to blame for this obvious evil? Are those pesty little birds actually incarnated demon spirits? Naw, they're just evolved descendants of dinosaurs of unearthly origins. Damned evolution!