They're still harsh now. And there is a real difference between killing an attacker and killing a victim.
Yes, I totally agree with you, but if you have been listening to me, I am saying that what I think the bible is implying about a woman not screaming, is like saying she is not really a victim.
Just because people want these things to happen, does not make them correct. Indeed it is illegal to kill your partner for cheating or to kill your rapist after-the-fact.
Of course it is. If we did, then everyone would be dead now, wouldn't they. Well almost everyone. You see how they glorify cheating on TV these days? Its an awesome world humanism has created isn't it?
Is cheating or rape worse than death? No.
Thats not what I said. I said being raped, or being cheated on ain't no picnic. Some even kill themselves over it, because death is preferable.
If you were being raped, would you think so logically while being violently violated? I doubt it.
Your right, I would probably just scream.
And now for the complete verse in context, because you guys have been mixing up verses.
quote:
22 If a man is found sleeping with another man's wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die. You must purge the evil from Israel.
That is one thought.
Then it goes on to:
quote:
23 If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and he sleeps with her, 24 you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death-the girl because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man's wife. You must purge the evil from among you.
quote:
25 But if out in the country a man happens to meet a girl pledged to be married and rapes her, only the man who has done this shall die. 26 Do nothing to the girl; she has committed no sin deserving death. This case is like that of someone who attacks and murders his neighbor, 27 for the man found the girl out in the country, and though the betrothed girl screamed, there was no one to rescue her.
So after have read those 3, it makes a little more sense, FOR THE TIME. Not today. The morals there are still in effect today.
Now for the tough one:
quote:
28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. [3] He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.
I will admit that this is a crazy verse. But for the time, it may have been needed. It was what Moses made as law, because he saw that it would work for the mindset of the people at that time. You cannot change the minds of people that easy, that is apparent in this forum.
If a woman was violated, she would not be a virgin anymore. This back then was everything to a woman, and the community. If she married and they found out she wasn't a virgin, they would kill her. So once she got raped, that guy who did it, better love her, because he is now out 50 shekels, and has to support her for the rest of his life. I don't feel as though this law was written to degrade woman, as much as it was written to deter men from doing such an act.
Now we have a hard time understanding it, because things are way different. Our culture is based on our needs for the time. 2000 years from now, we might look back and say how silly our laws are right now. There are plenty of stupid laws on the books right now. One of them being killing someone who tresspasses into your house, and you go to jail for killing him, and defending your home, just because he didn't have a gun or something stupid like that. Just look at the OJ fiasco, tell me that wasn't our Law in all its glory. We actually pay people to lie for us, so we can get away with murder, and all though this is not leagal when worded like that, it happens everyday, and it is widely accepted. So the law says one thing, yet we do another.
A quote from a commentary:
Commentaries:
Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown
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Deuteronomy 22:13-30
If a man take a wife, etc.--The regulations that follow might be imperatively needful in the then situation of the Israelites; and yet, it is not necessary that we should curiously and impertinently inquire into them. So far was it from being unworthy of God to leave such things upon record, that the enactments must heighten our admiration of His wisdom and goodness in the management of a people so perverse and so given to irregular passions. Nor is it a better argument that the Scriptures were not written by inspiration of God to object that this passage, and others of a like nature, tend to corrupt the imagination and will be abused by evil-disposed readers, than it is to say that the sun was not created by God, because its light may be abused by wicked men as an assistant in committing crimes which they have meditated [HORNE].
Matthew Henrey comments:
Deuteronomy 22:1-30
Of humanity towards brethren. (1-4) Various precepts. (5-12) Against impurity. (13-30)
Verses 1-4 If we duly regard the golden rule of "doing to others as we would they should do unto us," many particular precepts might be omitted. We can have no property in any thing that we find. Religion teaches us to be neighbourly, and to be ready to do all good offices to all men. We know not how soon we may have occasion for help.
Verses 5-12 God's providence extends itself to the smallest affairs, and his precepts do so, that even in them we may be in the fear of the Lord, as we are under his eye and care. Yet the tendency of these laws, which seem little, is such, that being found among the things of God's law, they are to be accounted great things. If we would prove ourselves to be God's people, we must have respect to his will and to his glory, and not to the vain fashions of the world. Even in putting on our garments, as in eating or in drinking, all must be done with a serious regard to preserve our own and others' purity in heart and actions. Our eye should be single, our heart simple, and our behaviour all of a piece.
Verses 13-30 These and the like regulations might be needful then, and yet it is not necessary that we should curiously examine respecting them. The laws relate to the seventh commandment, laying a restraint upon fleshly lusts which war against the soul.
I think all of those laws were geared towards keeping the woman pure, and keeping the man from making her unpure, just to satisfy his needs of the flesh.
Woman back then were for the taking, thats just the way it was. There were no guns, no midget lawers, and the rule of the land was a strong hand. you didn't survive on this earth unless you were strong enough too.
If we took everyone here on this forum, and stuck them on a deserted island, never to be seen again by society, some of the rules might change in respect to how we live. The stronger ones would have more say, or the majority would rule, unless the strongest person decided to kick everyones ass. Thats just the way it is, you can't change that. That person too, would also be able to take a woman if he wanted to. Whats to stop him? It grows from there. We would then have our own set of rules, based on our situation, and who was there, so we could survive. These rules would be completely out of line with the rest of society.
You want to dis-regard a book, that is so filled with information that can help you, with so much love and peace, because you can't relate to the times. You then call it evil, and dismiss it.
But I bet you, there are parts of the world that you would have no trouble visiting, and cherish your visit, even though some of there rules do not conform to your way of thinking. you would never call them evil. you would just accept them as being from a different culture, and have there own set of rules based on their situation and surroundings, and their history.
I will admit to you, as I have before to others here, I have not even read the whole OT. It is not even necessary to get to know God. The most important thing is knowing Jesus's words. I don't think I have ever seen someone in here dispute his words. It was his walk with faith, and by his example we are to follow. He promised us all of those things that he did, and greater, if we could just walk the walk.
I see it happening in my life.
This is also why, I do not get so hung up on whether Homosexuality is right or wrong, with the bible. It is very clear in there that it was against the bible, and Jesus "didn't come to change the law". Regardless of all that, I do not feel it is right, and when I ask God, he does not give me the feeling that it is right, but that I am not to judge those who do it, but to pray for them. I also won't be the one sitting in heaven saying "I told you so". Everyone is were their at for a reason. I fully understand that.
If your a gay person and looking for someone who doesn't think its right to sit here and say, yea its ok, I don't think thats going to happen either.
Now if we want to rationalize everything like Yaro tried to do by saying:
You seem to be supporting the OT, rape and all, by simply saying "things were different back then so it was ok". Since that is the case, why can't I simply say "Things are different now, so homosexuality is ok"?
Yes we can say that the times have changed, and our culture has changed. Even Jesus has helped to change the way we think. He is the main reason why we have changed so much. But the morals remain. Is she saying Jesus came down and said "Homosexuality is ok"?
Its all BS. The way things are today rape happens all the time. Our society is brainwashed into thinking that having sex is the thing to do, and relationships are out the window. I know not all people are like this, but have you watch TV lately. I am disgusted at how our nation is behaving. When I was younger, I couldn't even see it, because I to was brain washed to flow right along with it. Guys lie to girls, and tell them they love them just to get in their pants. To me thats a form of rape. Maybe the girl enjoyed it for the monent, but she lives with the pain and anguish of being lied to for the rest of her life. She then makes an oath to herself to never let that happen again, and then the next guy that comes along gets to deal with all that pain.
Give me a break.
8 All things are wearisome,
more than one can say.
The eye never has enough of seeing,
nor the ear its fill of hearing.
9 What has been will be again,
what has been done will be done again;
there is nothing new under the sun.
10 Is there anything of which one can say,
"Look! This is something new"?
It was here already, long ago;
it was here before our time.
Its all BS. Anyone who professes to know the answers is full of it, unless they now the truth, the only truth, and thats God, he's the only truth. You know, the one in your heart. The true person you are. You know, you without all the BS.
How do you find him? One way is through the bible, you know that evil book with all those crazy stories from a time we know little about.
™ Version 4.2
