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Author Topic:   The bible and homosexuality: Round 3
Silent H
Member (Idle past 5849 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 136 of 306 (135935)
08-21-2004 12:35 PM
Reply to: Message 135 by Phat
08-21-2004 5:52 AM


If honest, however, we had best condemn organized gambling, prostitution, and adultry if we dare condemn hopmosexuality.
Why?

holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by Phat, posted 08-21-2004 5:52 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 137 by Phat, posted 08-21-2004 1:16 PM Silent H has replied

Silent H
Member (Idle past 5849 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 138 of 306 (135958)
08-21-2004 3:28 PM
Reply to: Message 137 by Phat
08-21-2004 1:16 PM


Re: Why? Denial is more than a river!
I wasn't sure why... if we were honest... we'd have to condemn one group of things if we condemn homosexuality. This was especially curious as for the most part all those others are roundly condemned already.
I guess what you meant was consistent. IMHO, if we were honest we shouldn't be condemning the rest, just because we condemn any one of them.
Your references certainly did not change my opinion...
As gambling spreads, so do its associated problems. Heavy gambling, like drug use, can lead to divorce, domestic violence, child abuse, and bankruptcy.
Where was this from? And what other things... like HEAVY gambling... results in those same problems? People can and do become addicted to many things including work. Extreme behaviors put the same pressures on relationships and about all of the above occur as well (though work usually doesn't lead to bankruptcy).
There is no reason to condemn gambling because some engage in HEAVY gambling and suffer the effects of that problem.
According to a 1998 study commissioned by the National Gambling Impact Study Commission, residents within 50 miles of a casino are twice as likely to be classified as "problem" or "pathological" gamblers than those who live further away.
I gotta tell ya I'd take an "impact study" (where the commission is comprised pretty much entirely of nonstatisticians, including two that have extreme bias on the issue and was assembled by conservatives on an agenda) with a huge grain of salt.
That said, I can't argue with the above stats. The question to you is whether it shows some sort of causation such that gambling is corrupting those in the vicinity. It is unlikely. Given that most gambling is illegal and pushed into specific locations, doesn't it make sense that those with problems are likely to move close to those locations?
I'd be interested in seeing what those stats look like in places where gambling is allowed in general populations.
Again, I am not seeing where general gambling is a problem.
As for homosexuality, check out this link:
You realize that link puts pretty much all the blame of gay suicides on the pressure gays receive BECAUSE of its condemnation?
And as for adultery?
Adultery includes a HUGE range of activity, including consensual sex activities NOT behind the back of your partner. If you are refering to "cheating" (which is behind the back of a partner) then obviously that will put a strain on the relationship. Of course part of this is because of the cultural nonacceptance of extramarital sexual activities.
People lose interest in, and eventually lose, their spouses for many reasons besides sexual infidelity. I am uncertain where "adultery" gets the largest credit, or blame.
I suppose all of this leads into the old argument of legislating morality, and I do not condone THAT, either.
Yeah, it wasn't obvious you were saying we should, and I'm glad to see you're not.
What I do suggest is that people ask themselves what the source for moral governance should be? Where should it start?
Heheheh... I guess another thread is where it should start. But for my own opinion, I don't think secular governments should be governing the morality of its citizens at all.

holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by Phat, posted 08-21-2004 1:16 PM Phat has not replied

Silent H
Member (Idle past 5849 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 143 of 306 (136065)
08-22-2004 5:07 AM
Reply to: Message 142 by Phat
08-22-2004 4:02 AM


The solution is not to demand the rights to go run off with the man of your choice. The solution is to grow up!
Gotta find this just a bit ironic.
The solution to being a homosexual is not to pursue one's right to live one's life as a homosexual, it is to "grow up" and do what the Xian church dictates.
Because the more mature thing to do is to follow the dictates of an invisible "friend"in the sky you were told about as a child?
When I became a man I put away childish things.

holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by Phat, posted 08-22-2004 4:02 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 144 by Phat, posted 08-22-2004 11:22 AM Silent H has replied

Silent H
Member (Idle past 5849 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 147 of 306 (136105)
08-22-2004 12:55 PM
Reply to: Message 144 by Phat
08-22-2004 11:22 AM


Re: Its about Responsibility! Not "Rights"!
My point, biased though it may well be classified as,(although I wager that statistically it is not far off) is that the usual homosexual relationship is pursued for different reasons than some sort of marriage ideal.
???
I guess I can't exactly say you are wrong as it looks like purely subjective opinion to me, other than your statement regarding your wager.
I am uncertain where you'd begin to measure any of the characteristics you are describing, especially in some statistically significant manner.
The inability of moralists to accept the human condition appears to me to be a distinct sign of immaturity, compounded to an even greater degree by believing in a children's fairy tale (or to be fair a moral Fable ala Aesop).
I wouldn't condemn it but I would suggest it isn't exactly helpful or realistic.
But hey, that's what makes the world go around!
Although you stand on the opposite side from me morally I'm glad that you seem to have the will to leave people be and have a diverse society.

holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 144 by Phat, posted 08-22-2004 11:22 AM Phat has not replied

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