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Member (Idle past 507 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: |
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Author | Topic: The bible and homosexuality: Round 3 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
riVeRraT Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Message 190 of 276 05-29-2004 07:40 PM Re: Still looking for specifics.Yes, I like this verse. But for Adam [8] no suitable helper was found. 21 So the LORD God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man's ribs [9] and closed up the place with flesh. 22 Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib [10] he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.23 The man said, "This is now bone of my bonesand flesh of my flesh; she shall be called 'woman, [11] ' for she was taken out of man." 24 For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh. This cleary shows Gods intention for man to be with woman, and be united as one. Even though at the begining of this thread, it was said not to mentionLeviticus, that scripture pretty much sums it up. I see no need for any others. But here is some more, Judges20 "You are welcome at my house," the old man said. "Let me supply whatever you need. Only don't spend the night in the square." 21 So he took him into his house and fed his donkeys. After they had washed their feet, they had something to eat and drink. 22 While they were enjoying themselves, some of the wicked men of the city surrounded the house. Pounding on the door, they shouted to the old man who owned the house, "Bring out the man who came to your house so we can have sex with him." 23 The owner of the house went outside and said to them, "No, my friends, don't be so vile. Since this man is my guest, don't do this disgraceful thing. 24 Look, here is my virgin daughter, and his concubine. I will bring them out to you now, and you can use them and do to them whatever you wish. But to this man, don't do such a disgraceful thing." Disgraceful and vile. We won't mention how many times the New testament mentions not to be sexually immoral.That would include man with man, and woman with woman according to the OT by which the New testament was based on. Romans26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. Thou shall not commit adultry.Since man and woman were created to be as one, adultry could only be if man left woman, or woman left man. Webster defines adultry as: Main Entry: adulteryPronunciation: &-'d&l-t(&-)rE Function: noun Inflected Form(s): plural -teries Etymology: Middle English, alteration of avoutrie, from Middle French, from Latin adulterium, from adulter adulterer, back-formation from adulterare : voluntary sexual intercourse between a married man and someone other than his wife or between a married woman and someone other than her husband; also : an act of adultery Jude 1:7In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire. We all know what happened there. 1 Corinthians 68Instead, you yourselves cheat and do wrong, and you do this to your brothers. 9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. I am by no means a bible expert, but this is what I came up with. I would have to conclude that it is against God according to the bible.
I already gave that explaination.I can't help it if you don't read your own threads. And here are some more exapmles of the bible speaking against sexual immorality. I already proved that it is sexually immoral to be gay. Numbers 25:1While Israel was staying in Shittim, the men began to indulge in sexual immorality with Moabite women, (Whole Chapter: Numbers 25 In context: Numbers 25:1-2) Matthew 15:19For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. (Whole Chapter: Matthew 15 In context: Matthew 15:18-20) Mark 7:21For from within, out of men's hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, (Whole Chapter: Mark 7 In context: Mark 7:20-22) Acts 15:20Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. (Whole Chapter: Acts 15 In context: Acts 15:19-21) Acts 15:29You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell. (Whole Chapter: Acts 15 In context: Acts 15:28-30) Acts 21:25As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality." (Whole Chapter: Acts 21 In context: Acts 21:24-26) Romans 13:13Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy. (Whole Chapter: Romans 13 In context: Romans 13:12-14) 1 Corinthians 5:1It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that does not occur even among pagans: A man has his father's wife. (Whole Chapter: 1 Corinthians 5 In context: 1 Corinthians 5:1-2) 1 Corinthians 5:9I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— (Whole Chapter: 1 Corinthians 5 In context: 1 Corinthians 5:8-10) 1 Corinthians 5:11But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat. (Whole Chapter: 1 Corinthians 5 In context: 1 Corinthians 5:10-12) 1 Corinthians 6:9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders (Whole Chapter: 1 Corinthians 6 In context: 1 Corinthians 6:8-10) 1 Corinthians 6:12"Everything is permissible for me"—but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible for me"—but I will not be mastered by anything. (Whole Chapter: 1 Corinthians 6 In context: 1 Corinthians 6:11-13) 1 Corinthians 6:13"Food for the stomach and the stomach for food"—but God will destroy them both. The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. (Whole Chapter: 1 Corinthians 6 In context: 1 Corinthians 6:12-14) 1 Corinthians 6:18Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. (Whole Chapter: 1 Corinthians 6 In context: 1 Corinthians 6:17-19) 1 Corinthians 10:8We should not commit sexual immorality, as some of them did—and in one day twentythree thousand of them died. (Whole Chapter: 1 Corinthians 10 In context: 1 Corinthians 10:7-9) Galatians 5:19The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; (Whole Chapter: Galatians 5 In context: Galatians 5:18-20) Ephesians 5:3But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people. (Whole Chapter: Ephesians 5 In context: Ephesians 5:2-4) Colossians 3:5Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. (Whole Chapter: Colossians 3 In context: Colossians 3:4-6) 1 Thessalonians 4:3It is God's will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; (Whole Chapter: 1 Thessalonians 4 In context: 1 Thessalonians 4:2-4) Hebrews 12:16See that no one is sexually immoral, or is godless like Esau, who for a single meal sold his inheritance rights as the oldest son. (Whole Chapter: Hebrews 12 In context: Hebrews 12:15-17) Hebrews 13:4Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral. (Whole Chapter: Hebrews 13 In context: Hebrews 13:3-5) Jude 1:7In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire. (Whole Chapter: Jude 1 In context: Jude 1:6-8) Revelation 2:14Nevertheless, I have a few things against you: You have people there who hold to the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to entice the Israelites to sin by eating food sacrificed to idols and by committing sexual immorality. (Whole Chapter: Revelation 2 In context: Revelation 2:13-15) Revelation 2:20Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols. (Whole Chapter: Revelation 2 In context: Revelation 2:19-21) Revelation 9:21Nor did they repent of their murders, their magic arts, their sexual immorality or their thefts. (Whole Chapter: Revelation 9 In context: Revelation 9:20-22) What more do you want?If it says in the law books that it is illegal to go through a stop sign without stopping only once, is it in fact illegal to go through a stop sign without stopping? Why would you need anything more than leviticus to tell you its against God to be gay. Its not what he created us for period. As a matter of fact, I am going to propse a new topic. I want one good reason why I should accept being gay as ok. *Disclaimer for the under privelaged, I do not hate gay people, I only do not agree with the act of being gay.*
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
How is this not picking and choosing what you want to hear? There are plenty of things in the old testament that tells you to go out and burn the wicked and all that crap, why aren't you out there doing any of these things?
Because that is old law that Jesus changed. Some people still go for eye for an eye.
24 For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh. This cleary shows Gods intention for man to be with woman, and be united as one. What does this have anything to do with homosexuality? This is like pointing out passages mentioning horses and chariots and say that god doesn't want people to use cars.
You mean you can't get the implimications of this?IT's pretty obvious to me what God intended for us by this scripture.
Thou shall not commit adultry. Since man and woman were created to be as one, adultry could only be if man left woman, or woman left man. What the hell does adultery have anything to do with homosexuality?
Notice it doesn't say man left man. Of course it doesn't, it wasn't accepted.
Numbers 25:1 While Israel was staying in Shittim, the men began to indulge in sexual immorality with Moabite women, (Whole Chapter: Numbers 25 In context: Numbers 25:1-2) Hahahahahahahaha. So, being hetero is immoral after all.
Yep yep. I agree, and thats wrong too. As soon as you stick it in the poop chute, your immoral. Amoung other things. Being gay is considered being sexually immoral.One interpretation of the bible even says homsexual. 1 Corinthians 6:9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders Its so clear.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Notice that the bible never mentioned any car, airplane, computer, etc... Does that mean that it is not ok to use any of these things?
It mentions about material things, isn't that enough?
The only thing I can see is your prejudice guiding your interpretation.
Its not me being prejudice, its you being angry towards Christians.
I'll accept this statement if you accept my following unsupported statement: you are an idiot.
Thanks dude. You have just summed up who you are by doing that.I still Love you, even if you call me an idiot. Peace.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
I want to learn more about ancient slavery.
Weren't there good rulers and bad rulers? Jesus did not chnage the law, but I guess he added to it. He was pretty animate about not changing the law, otherwise he would have been killed for ir, which he was.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
I thought he was killed for saying that he would tear down the church, and rebuild it in three days. Except the rulers left out the rebuild part, to make him look like he said he would just destroy the church.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
The reason I'm angry towards christians like you is because it's christians like you that have used the bible to justify just about every atrocity done in the past: from the crusades to the slaughtering of the native americans to the enslavement of various races.
Christians like me? Wow! I am not using the bible to justify anything, I am saying it was man's fault, not God's. Man did all those things, not God. Another point, back to the topic. You don't want to include Leviticus, but that is kind of stupid. Leviticus was part of the law, and Jesus was the biggest upholder of the law, and said that the law will never change. Matthew 5:18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. When Jesus talks about sexual immoralty, he is talking about man with man. The bible doesn't have to clear this up for you, you have to clear it up for yourself. So Jesus was aginst it, therefor God was too. GN
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Thats pretty funny. He was talking about food, so unless you plan on chewing and digesting a penis, you are wrong.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Matthew 15:19
For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. Yes I have had a hair cut.The power is in the hair!
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Ok, I will give you the answers you seek.
Leviticus 21:9.Being burned to death was the punishment for doing the immoral act. The fact that it is immoral has not changed. But it should still be punishable. So clearly it is immoral, which is the word of God.
Ok, to plainly put it, these verses forbids a woman from entering church for 42 days after giving birth. The Catholic church has completely ignored this verse as far as creating their policies go. To our moral standards today, the notion of a woman somehow "unclean" for 42 days after giving birth is absurd.
Blink, you did not just say that?Go talk to a GYN. After birth, they tell you not to have sex for 40 days, because the women is unclean, and has an open wound that can get infected.
These verses clearly justify slavery, given that slaves are bought from neighboring states. Verse 25:46 clearly states that slaves are property. During the 18th and 19th centuries, many Americans used these verses to justify slavery in this country. In other words, Leviticus was used to justify one of the darkest and most embarrassing part of our history.
As in other posts, I have stated that ancient slavery was different. I am also not an expert on slavery in those days. So in the sense of ancient times, it may have been ok, provided you treated the slaves the way the bible tells you to. With respect and honor. This was not the case of modern day slavery for which man was wrong. If being a slave was a consensual thing, then it would be ok, right? This was not the case in modern days, it went against the peoples will. edited for spelling. This message has been edited by riVeRraT, 07-08-2004 10:21 AM
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Its amazing how you don't get it.
Jesus changes all that for us, and showed us what is really important in life. If you could prove to me, that Jesus didn't, I will let my hair grow long then. I have already proven that Jesus was against sexual immorality, as described in Leviticus.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
OMG, duh.
Of course the women is unclean, she is still bleeding, and releasing fluids. Where do you people come from? This message has been edited by riVeRraT, 07-09-2004 05:39 AM
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Can you show me where it says you get burned to death for getting a haircut?
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
You are directly reinterpreting leviticus. It specifically said to burn the woman to death, not just be punished
Since as you can see that, punishments have changed over the years, by God inspired people, just like Moses, and Jesus teaches us that it will change, Jesus must be real.
Again, you are completely dodging the point and reinterpreting the text. It specifically forbids the woman from entering church for 42 days. And what the fuck does that have anything to do about sex? You are picking and choosing what part of the text you want to use.
Yes a woman should saty home, and heal and be with her baby, and keep her unclean self out of the church. Thats a really good suggestion.
So, if we treat the slaves right then it is ok to have slavery again? Again and again, you've interpreted the text in your own way instead of being literal about it. You are being literal about the gay part and yet you are not being literal about other parts of leviticus. What's wrong with this picture?
Doesn't matter how we treat a slave if, a person doesn't want to be a slave it is wrong. Again I tell you, Jesus changed all that for us. IT is apparent, because now the world is different just like Jesus said it would be. So Jesus must be real. He directly say to us that sexual immorality was against his will, as described in Levitcus.He was talking about Leviticus, because while he was alive, he was the biggest upholder of the law. But his teachings taught us to change. So you are picking examples of what Jesus changed, and then saying that all of Leviticus is no good. Here's a way that being gay can hurt someone else, according to the bible.Romans 21 It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
If it's consensual, it isn't slavery.
Prove that one. Jesus changes many things in Leviticus, but keeps some, one of them being sexual immorality being against God's will. Sexual immorality as described in Leviticus.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
What goes in your mouth is food. What comes out is words. He was talking about food, when he was explaining about what goes in.
Righteousness is not only found in fellowship.You are a slave to sin, until you are a slave to righteousness. Righteousness is doing things God's way, which includes how you behave in fellowship. There is no extension of sexual restrictions. Jesus cleary states that sexual immorality is still wrong. Several times in the NT.
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