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Author Topic:   The Epic of Gilgamesh and the Bible. Which came first?
Theus
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 90 (265388)
12-04-2005 1:44 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Lysimachus
12-03-2005 1:41 PM


Umm...
I'm not sure that Gilgamesh epic is a fair comparison to the Bible, for instance the epic of Gilgamesh hasn't had inconvinient parts of it cut due to unpopularity (at least for the past few millenia). Additionally, and this is just a guess, but having millions of people emotionally dependent upon oh, say, the order of creation of birds and plants, may have an effect on our interpretations of the two documents, maybe one is considered a little more superior than the other by most observers (however, not by this one).
Also, we have fairly specific Gilgamesh stories in their origional language. Let's face it, reading the bible (and, well, Gilgamesh too) in English is much like buying the edited CD's at Walmart. To really get to the core of it, read not only Hebrew and Greek versions, but also the "bonus tracks" of previously unreleased material that the clergic... RIAA don't want you to download. Oh, Intellectual Property you devil. Gilgamesh, in contrast, is somewhat more complete and less edited. And, we have fairly early dates for it's existence in the archaeologic record (Let's hear it for stone!). At the same time, though the Torah's age is largely inferred, it's earliest representation is in the Dead Sea Scrolls at 2,000 years ago. We don't know exactly how old it is, as either oral or written tradition.
Basically, even though we have old, old texts, we don't necessarily make good comparisons. Imagine a post-apocalyptic world, then a couple thousand years later as a world struggling to understand it's past and manipulate it to compare to the present to build the idealised and unrealistic future they all... I'll end the analogy here. But, and for the purpose of debate, the future archaeologists, after spending 100 years of excavation and intense debate with fundamentalists who believe the world is only two thousand years old, have come up with the following documents:
1. Ten Commandments from an Alabama Courthouse (in stone, right?)
2. Vietnam Memorial fragments
3. Wal-Mart sign
4. Gravestones, lots of gravestones...
5. New Deal Projects (Pre World War II America)
6. Funky Winkerbeen
So, though these all are preserved and from the same time, comparisons between the two may not be meaningful. In the article, the author goes at great length to compare the two documents. You could draw meanings between Gravestones and the Vietnam Memorial (meaningful), but at the same time draw inferences between the Walmart sign and gravestones (not meaningful... yet...). I'm not sure that the authors of this paper did a good job in relating the stories, they use too much of what they want to see, and not enough self criticism. For instance, is one giant flood in each story necessarily reflective of a specific historical event? Or could it be that all ancient civilizations had large population densities near rivers, and each could point to a "giant" flood that wiped out the world? The same world which, according to most accounts, was a great deal smaller then.
The interpretations are possibly accurate. However, without criticising their own conclusions, they are probably not accurate. There is an old saying from the Tanakh that, and not only in the ironic sense, is worth mentioning in this context:
"It is better to listen to the reproach of a wise man than to the praise of fools."
Vale,
Theus

Veri Omni Veritas

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Lysimachus, posted 12-03-2005 1:41 PM Lysimachus has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by arachnophilia, posted 12-04-2005 2:10 AM Theus has not replied

  
Theus
Inactive Member


Message 32 of 90 (266464)
12-07-2005 3:05 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by arachnophilia
12-06-2005 9:45 PM


Re: Ugarit
A distinction should probably be drawn between correlation and causation concerning ancient religious scriptures. The Torah and Ugartic works may stem from similar cultures in a similar environmental condition and be otherwise unrelated. One doesn't have to "cause" the other, but a working relationship can still be established.
Could statistical analysis of reoccuring idioms or sentence structure be used to test such a hypothesis?
Vale,
Theus
P.S. Anyone know where to pick up copies of the Ugartic texts? They're few and far between in Wyoming.

Veri Omni Veritas

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by arachnophilia, posted 12-06-2005 9:45 PM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by arachnophilia, posted 12-07-2005 3:51 PM Theus has not replied

  
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