Dating from the Adams and Eves Threads

edge, Its the greater saturated pore pressures with increasing depth that has the direct bearing on Liquefaction. Gases would be an additional motive force as particles floated sorting to equilibrium based off density and pore pressures. Liquefaction is nothing more than the particles being spread apart by water pore pressures due to the fact that water being near incompressible causing the sediment particles to behave more like a liquid.Earthquake liquefaction is another type of liquefaction that I agree would destroy varves because it would be a sudden surging upwards of pore pressures.

Psalm 104:10 & Psalm 104:13 than Jeremiah 72:11? Psalms basically says God sent the springs into the valleys that run into the hills & that he watereth the hills from his chambers and that the earth is satisfied.The creationists talk of the evidence of the worlds fresh water aquifiers present liquefaction state (the springs of the earth) supports the world flood.It could not of happened over millions or years, because particles once compressed don't recharge like we see in the Grand Canyon. Its horizontal water lenses markings support it too was formed by the sediments horizontally sorting in a saturated state (liquefaction sorting).It does not support it was lain down a little bit at a time over millions of years, instead to a Creationists it shows how the sediments compress when water is leached out.Lake Suitsu has never had its horizontal lenses consolidated, its varves too are a testament to the Creationists Flood sediments. In agreement how the sediments in aquifiers world wide were saturated in the first place. How the hills themselves are scientifically being watered horizontally from these aquifier water chambers.Liquefaction science explains that with greater water pressures waters naturally presses upward (springs). Given capillary water pressures can move water up to 20 feet above an aquifier this is creation science. The principles of how the springs in the earth satisfies the earth.Once an aquifier is drawn down it can only compress due to pressure, without incompressible water it compresses. These compressed sediments are never able to be uncompressed to be recharged to its previous water capacity.This message has been edited by The Golfer, 12-25-2005 10:15 PM

Ned, I've seen no proof to support neutrons form C14 within the earth, meaning your point of view is without reason. Katheline Hunt said C14 presence needs to be addressed, yet no scientific evidence supporting your beliefs. The radiometric dating methods are not the age of the earth, but an appearance of age.

Scientists have recently shown that a very minute but unchanging amount of carbon-14 is present in the atmosphere of the earth and that all living organisms assimilate traces of this isotope during their lifetime. After death this assimilation ceases and the radioactive carbon, constantly decaying, is no longer maintained at a steady concentration. Estimation of the ages of a number of objects, such as bones and mummies, of historical and archaeological interest have been made possible by carbon-14 measurements.Thorium-234 emits beta particles, which are electrons. According to current theory, beta emission is accomplished by the transformation of a neutron into a proton, thus resulting in an increase in nuclear charge (or atomic number) of one unit. The mass of the electron is negligible, thus the isotope that results from thorium-234 decay has mass number 234 but atomic number 91 and is, therefore, a protactinium isotope.B. Gamma RadiationGamma emission is usually found in association with alpha and beta emission. Gamma rays possess no charge or mass; thus emission of gamma rays by a nucleus does not result in a change in chemical properties of the nucleus but merely in the loss of a certain amount of radiant energy. The emission of gamma rays is a compensation by the atomic nucleus for the unstable state that follows alpha and beta processes in the nucleus. The primary alpha or beta particle and its consequent gamma ray are emitted almost simultaneously. A few cases are known of pure alpha and beta emission, however, that is, alpha and beta processes unaccompanied by gamma rays; a number of pure gamma-emitting isotopes are also known. Pure gamma emission occurs when an isotope exists in two different forms, called nuclear isomers, having identical atomic numbers and mass numbers, but different in nuclear-energy content. The emission of gamma rays accompanies the transition of the higher-energy isomer to the lower-energy form. An example of isomerism is the isotope protactinium-234, which exists in two distinct energy states with the emission of gamma rays signaling the transition from one to the other.http://encarta.msn.com/text_761569327__1/Radioactivity.html Radiocarbons presense shows the falicy of sandwich dating (indirect dating methods being used to date the fossil). Sandwich dating:This message has been edited by The Golfer, 12-27-2005 12:25 AM

The neutron appears to big to leave its nucleus, all thats leaving is gamma rays, electrons, etc... You did say it takes a neutron and nitrogen to form C14?

Mini_Ditka, The problem is they are using these methods to date the fossil indirectly because its not possible for them to date the fossil directly.When the fossil has C14 its presence is a problem (doesn't correlate), the fossil can not be millions of years if the fossil can be directly dated by C14 thousands of years.If the evolutionists can not prove neutrons are leaving the nucleus of the isotope decaying, then its a problem. They then have to prove C14 is formed by gamma radiation, electrons instead of neutrons.They want me to accept their good faith that it is so without providing me scientific evidence that supports their beliefs.This message has been edited by The Golfer, 12-27-2005 01:18 AM

Coragyps, Alpha particles two protons and two neutrons that combine do form helium. I'll agree uranium decays into helium, radium but no mention that its decaying individual neutrons just that its decaying into helium.Alpha particle - Wikipedia

mini ditka,Oil and Coal are commonly C14 dated 30,000 to 40,000 years. Snelling mineral wood fossil dated 38,000 years well beneath the backround radiation thresh hold.The current maximum radiocarbon age limit lies in the range between 58,000 and 62,000 years. This limit is encountered when the radioactivity of the residual 14C in a sample is too low to be distinguished from the background radiation.Radiocarbon dating - WikipediaP.S. When they date the earth its based on to many assumptions. No contamination over millions of years, no leachate contamination, and that they have to rule out contamination. The Creationists refering to liquefaction state of all fresh water aquifiers supports all sediments on the earth have been contaminated.This message has been edited by The Golfer, 12-27-2005 12:48 PM

edge, I know you are looking out for contaminations, however it appeared from my link that uranium decays into helium and then gives off gamma rays. It goes on to say it doesn't travel far(a few centimenter in the air), its stopped by a layer of skin. This is not a nucleur reactor where your multipling reactions. Your own link said any practical portable neutron source will not provide you with thermal neutrons. To get thermal neutrons they refered you to buy a commercial source like 252Cf that has a half life of 2.65 years.First, any practical portable neutron source will not provide you with thermal neutrons.Commercially available sources of neutrons include 252Cf that normally undergoes an alpha decay, but has about 3% of its decays through spontaneous fission.
Not FoundWould not a fossils N14 have to be radiated by a neutron to be contaminated. If alpha rays are easily absorbed by materials how can it reach the N14 within the fossil.Because of their charge and large mass, alpha rays are easily absorbed by materials and can travel only a few centimeters in air. They can be absorbed by tissue paper or the outer layers of human skin (about 40 micrometres, equivalent to a few cells deep) and so are not generally dangerous to life unless the source is ingested or inhaled.
Alpha particle - Wikipedia

Coragyps,The links I've already given says that your cellose is converted to kerogen in the absense of oxygen. Other links make light of kerogen and humic clays both having extremely high molecular weights due to humic acids. Check out these links inrespect to both kerogen and humic clays high molecular weights and similarities. Humics can bond up to 50 of the elements on the periodic table with the leachate having more organics solutes in solution than minerals.http://www.hagroup.neu.edu/abouthafrm.htm
Humic Acids
http://welcome.to/humics/structurems/humicms.htm
Page not found | UW Civil & Environmental Engineering
http://www.ihss.gatech.edu/

roxrkool,Fossils that can not be dated directly via C14 are dated by the sediments surrounding the fossil. They find age factors in the rock sediments to date, and suddenly they have an old fossil.Note: They date rock sediments directly to indirectly date the fossil.This message has been edited by The Golfer, 12-27-2005 07:08 PM

mini dika, The age of the granites support both old and young depending what age factors your testing for. Humphreys (Creationist scientists)shows that helium suggests 6,000 years, however some age factors suggests millions of years. All we know is that the earths bedrock appears 4.6 billion years but that does not mean its not 6,000 years since the earth was created.The earth likely would of been created with all the age factor from the earths beginnings. To clarify; in vacuum space, water, gold are known to vaporizes. Are the elements vaporized beyond our atmosphere. Is these elements getting older in space as we speak. Were the age factors you dating within the earth already old before the earth was formed 6,000 years ago.How come the earth is made with water from the inside out. Surely if the elements can vaporize in space these elements could of been drawn together by our IDer to form the earth. These elements age is not necessarily the age of the earth. Were all the stars made up in similar ways, from elements God made billions of years ago. Only God knows he simply says in the beginning he made the heaven and the earth. We simply can not assume the earth age factors are from the earths beginnings.All the dating methods suggests the sediment layers are millions of years and not 4.6 billion years. Is the earth getting younger or was all your sediment layers contaminated by the biblical flood.All the freshwater aquifiers exists in an liquefaction state. This simply supports all the sediments of the earth were contaminated by the flood. If the earths elements dated old even before the earth was created why would not all your dating methods not have the appearance of age.This message has been edited by The Golfer, 12-27-2005 11:36 PM

Your asking how your cellose (kerogen) is being contaminated. I given you links to digests. I've never said I totally disagree'd with the upper varve dates but provided a scientific mechanism to explain the lower varves less than perfect correlations.Lake Suitsu Varves actually supports the young earth, from a creationists flood scientific perspective. Liquefaction varve sorting, humic acids, anaerobic digestion supports the creationist point of view including the laying down of varves since their biblical flood.

Coragyps,The lower varve ages were determined by assuming, evolutionists always need to assume something. It is interesting how they always attack someone challenging their assumptions. Hmmmm........The Lake Suigetsu floating varve chronology consists of 29,100 varves. The sedimentation or annual varve thickness is relatively uniform (typically 1.2 mm yr-1 during the Holocene and 0.62 mm yr-1 during the Glacial).The age below 30.45 m depth is obtained ....." by assuming "..... a constant sedimentation in the Glacial (0.62 mm yr-1).http://www.cio.phys.rug.nl/HTML-docs/Verslag/97/PE-04.htm

Why would an evolutionist C14 directly date fossils sandwiched between sediment layers dating millions of years. They need the fossil to date old, so they came up with this ingenious way to achieve this. Never date the fossil directly, but always ascribe its age to the sediments surrounding the fossil. Sediment ages really has no direct bearing on the true age of the fossil. This is key, the evolutionist tries to never directly date a fossil, therefore they can allude with a staight face its the age of a rock. The truth is they never dated the fossil.If the elements that make up the earth were in a vaporized state in space before the earth was created. Then 4.6 billion years could be how long these elements were before the earth was. The earth could of been created 13,000 years ago, 6,000 years ago. Only God know the exact date but no reason for a Creationists to believe it was created 4.6 billion years ago.In respect to Mitochondrial Eve the Evolutionists could not ascribe its age to a rock. The evolutionists had no choice (but to punt)create a bogus mutation rate which they did by "assuming" Australian Eve was 40,000 years old.However mutation rates are known and this information directly ages African Eve to be 6,000 years old.http://www.wartalk.info/ann_gibbons.html