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Author Topic:   Good Bible Prophecies List
Brian
Member (Idle past 4989 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 5 of 82 (40200)
05-15-2003 6:12 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Buzsaw
05-14-2003 11:30 PM


Not a single 'prophecy' at this site is in actual fact a prophecy.
Maybe you want to post a few that you think are true prophecies?
------------------
Remembering events that never happened is a dangerous thing!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Buzsaw, posted 05-14-2003 11:30 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Brian
Member (Idle past 4989 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 19 of 82 (40431)
05-16-2003 2:09 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Buzsaw
05-16-2003 12:22 AM


Another non-prophecy
HI Buzz,
To start with I really do not think this is actually a prophecy, but I will play along nonetheless.
In Matthew 24:14 Jesus prophesied that his new little religion/gospel would eventually be preached worldwide.
1.It was an itty bitty new little religion considered by the mainstream as a cult when the prophecy was uttered.
A few problems here:
1. Firstly was it a new religion or a continuation of an old one?
2. Did Jesus say anything about creating a new religion?
3. When exactly was this allegedly uttered?
4. Who actually wrote this?
5. How can you be certain this is what Jesus said?
6. Does ‘worldwide’ in this context mean the entire Earth, or just the known world?
7. What was the mainstream religion in Palestine at the time?
8. Do you think that Christianity is not a cult?
9. Matthew 24:14 mentions nothing about a new religion.
10.This is actually a failed prophecy at this moment in time, which is clear if you read the text. Matthew 24:14 says:
‘And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come’
Since the end has not come, and never has looked like coming, then all nations cannot have heard the gospel, so this prophecy remains unfulfilled until Jesus comes back, don’t hold your breath.
2. The one who made the prophecy was soon after executed. Bigtime negative for the shakey new religion, humanly speaking.
1. Again this is hearsay, you have no independent witnesses to this execution, and certainly no eyewitness accounts.
2. This execution was actually a bigtime positive for this religion, when the entire foundation of Christianity is based on Jesus’ suffering, death and resurrection, how can his execution be a negative thing?
3. Do you understand Christianity?
3. His desciples who were to begin the fulfillment were neither wealthy, powerful, highly educated nor influential.
1. Well as we have seen it hasn’t been fulfilled, so the first point is immaterial.
2. They may not have been wealthy themselves but they had wealthy supporters, Joseph of Arimathea for example.
3. Paul was highly educated. The author of John had to be higly educated, but then this author was not a disciple
4. Nicodemas and Joseph of Arimathea were both members of the Sanhedrin, how influential do you want?
4. The mainstream religion of the time did everything possible to stop/hinder the spread of the new cult.
1. Such as?
2. Why then did it spread?
3. Why is ‘cult’ italicised?
5. The original desciples were nearly all executed also, according to tradition.
This is pure fantasy. I issue you a challenge, name 5 disciples and give supporting evidence of:
Who they were.
When they were executed
Where they were executed
How they were executed
Why they were executed
Not just rumours, but actual evidence, you do know that no one knows for sure how Paul was killed?
You see this was just a rumour to take away from the fact that some of the disciples stole Jesus' body from the tomb once they realised that he was just another failed messiah. The church fathers thought that if they could make up a story that all the disciples were killed rather than deny their Christ, then others would be convinced that Jesus actually did rise from the dead, after all who would die for a lie?
The story that the author of Matthew makes up about placing the guard at the tomb, because the Jewish authorities were concerned that someone would steal the body and the whole fable would be taken as true, reeks of fiction. It is pretty clear that this writer had heard all the rumours about the disciples stealing the body and had to include in his text a way of dealing with it.
6. Jerusalem, headquarters of the religion was soon destroyed.
This is related to Matthew 24:14 in which way?
7. The Ceasars of Rome determined to stamp out the religion after the destruction, inflicting terrible torture and death to the Christians.
I’d like supporting evidence for this, why would the Romans persecute the Christians but yet tolerate every other form of religion. Wasn’t it the case that the persecution of Christians only happened in certain areas? Wasn’t it the case that the Romans would only act against a group if there had been some complaint about them? Wasn't it the case that many Chrstians lived in peace at this time? There is more to this than you would like to think.
8. When the prophecy was uttered, most of the world was not even discovered yet.
This is a bit wild.
Jesus saying that the gospel would be preached in the whole world is not even remotely related to what you are implying here. He is simply meaning what any other person talking about the ‘whole world’ meant, the world that they know to exist. Remember that Jesus says it will be preached IN the whole world and not TO the whole world, can you prove that the gospel has been preached IN the whole world? I personally don’t think you can, but then again the burden of proof is on you.
I wish you would read the Bible in context before giving us such a flawed example of ‘prophecy’. You might at least have picked one that looks as if it has even remotely been fulfilled.
Any other ‘prophecies’ from you imagination?
Brian.
PS, If the Jews were so powerful, why was it IMPOSSIBLE for them to kill Jesus themselves, why did they need Pilate’s permission?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Buzsaw, posted 05-16-2003 12:22 AM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Buzsaw, posted 05-16-2003 9:49 PM Brian has replied

Brian
Member (Idle past 4989 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 50 of 82 (40535)
05-17-2003 7:24 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Buzsaw
05-16-2003 9:49 PM


Re: Another non-prophecy
New religion, for sure.
1. Temple worship ended.
2. Animal sacrifice ended. {Jesus now the sacrificial lamb once and for all.
3. Priesthood ended. Jesus now our high priest and we go directly to God through him.
4. Letter of the law ended. The indwelling Holy Spirit now guides us via the Bible.
5. Eye for an eye etc retaliation ended. Now Jesus says, "do good to them who persecute you."
You do not really seem to comprehend how Christianity evolved from within Judaism. Your ‘examples’ here simply reinforce the fact that Christianity wasn’t a new religion but only a variation of Judaism. It is not a new religion at all, it has its roots deeply set in Judaism.
You even worship the same God, and the Hebrew Bible makes up the majority of your scriptures.
These for a few. On and on we could go. No resemblence. Thus, the problem with the Jewish hiarchy.
And I could go on and on highlighting similarities between the two.
The problem with the Jewish hierarchy is in your imagination, there is no evidence that contemporary Jews had even heard of Jesus let alone seen him as a threat
At the Mount of Olives (Known as the Olivet Discourse, shortly before his death. His desciples asked him when the end time would come and when he would return to earth after his resurrection. It's all recorded in Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 by the respective authors.
Maybe I should have been clearer, I meant ‘when’ as in what year?
You do know that whoever wrote Matthew was writing it long after 70 AD when the Temple fell? Matthew maybe even as late as AD 110, but it was certainly after the Temple fell, it is hardly an impressive ‘prophecy’ to claim Jesus had predicted this would happen when you are writing as much as 40 years after the event.
How can you be certain anybody in history said anything??
Independent evidence, eyewitness testimonies, personal letters
"And this gospel of the kingdom shall be presch in the whole world for a testimony to all nations: and then shall the end come." (Speaking of the end of the age, not the end of the world. Note, Jesus forsaw the end of the age (of Gentile national sovereignty and the beginning of his messianic rule for 1000 years).
Could you explain this a bit clearer for me, it doesn’t make sense?
Has this happened or is it still to happen?
Judiasm, via temple worship, of course.
Perhaps in Jerusalem, but certainly nowhere else in Palestine.
No, certainly not, but had I been a Jewish devout at the time, I'd likely have considered it as such.
So why exactly isn’t it a cult now?
The apostle Paul certainly did before his conversion. He was actually rounding up the sect members and delivering them up to the Sanhedrin to be threatened, persecuted and/or killed previous to his remarkable conversion.
This is more hearsay on your part, again there is no external confirmation of this, and Paul’s ‘remarkable conversion’ on the Damascus road was historically impossible. The Sanhedrin had absolutely no authority in Syria, the whole story is a work of fiction and contrary to Pax Romana.
That wasn't the purpose of this particular scripture. This and the parallel scriptures in Mark and Luke were prophetic scriptures.
So we just have to keep hanging around to see if they come true or not?
As for the end time, LOL, if you don't think it's near. All the prophecies, both Old and New Testaments have the Jews back in Jerusalem and surrounded by armies, the industrial revolution, the weather patterns and the whole shebang prophesied for our time. The war on terror WILL NOT END UNTIL IT ENDS WITH ARMAGEDDON. Hang onto your hat, friend Brian.
Hey I wish I had a penny for every time I read or heard we are in the end of times LOL, the Christians say this every time someone farts the wrong way! Surely they will be right one of these times!
The Jews are not back in the land promised to them by Yahweh, they only have a tiny portion of it, Jeezus they haven’t even got full control of Jerusalem! The Jews are only back in Israel because crazy British Christians thought that they could help along the prophecy by setting up an Israelite state there.
The whole shebang has been in place many times and will never come to anything.
Any luck tracking down support for the execution of any 5 disciples?
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Buzsaw, posted 05-16-2003 9:49 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by Buzsaw, posted 05-17-2003 10:28 PM Brian has replied

Brian
Member (Idle past 4989 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 51 of 82 (40536)
05-17-2003 7:26 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by Buzsaw
05-17-2003 6:47 PM


You killed one of God's creatures?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Buzsaw, posted 05-17-2003 6:47 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by Buzsaw, posted 05-17-2003 10:52 PM Brian has not replied

Brian
Member (Idle past 4989 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 62 of 82 (40598)
05-18-2003 7:22 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by Buzsaw
05-17-2003 10:28 PM


Re: Another non-prophecy
'You do know that whoever wrote Matthew was writing it long after 70 AD when the Temple fell? Matthew maybe even as late as AD 110, but it was certainly after the Temple fell, it is hardly an impressive ?prophecy? to claim Jesus had predicted this would happen when you are writing as much as 40 years after the event.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So what? That proves nothing for or against his ability to prophesy the event or when he died. Nobody's successfully refuted the account yet.
You dont see a problem with 'predicting' an event 40 years AFTER it happened?
It is serious enough to take the prediction of the Fall of the Temple as a redacted prophecy, and therefore not a prophecy at all. It is a typical tactic of whoever wrote Matthew's gospel. The Gospel of Matthew is packed with non existant prophecies, the 'Nazarene', the 'out of egypt', the 'weepng in Ramah', are only a few examples. I would take anything this author wrote with a large dose of salt. I sometimes wonder why this is even incuded inthe New tetament as it is such a disaster of a text.
Anyway, if I said to you that I predicted that the Berlin Wall would fall in November 1989, would you take me seriously?
You see writing about something 40 years after it happened is not greatly convincing to me. What would have been convincing is Jesus appearing in front of the Sanhedrin after he 'died'.
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by Buzsaw, posted 05-17-2003 10:28 PM Buzsaw has not replied

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