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Author Topic:   Good Bible Prophecies List
PaulK
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Posts: 17828
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 4 of 82 (40186)
05-15-2003 3:57 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Buzsaw
05-14-2003 11:30 PM


I notice that they include the usual weaselling to avoid admitting that Ezekiel's propecy against Tyre failed. Nor does it admit that the mainstream view of Bible scholars is that the prophecies of Daniel are dated to the 2nd Century BC - after most of the events "predicted".
Neither encourages me to trust the site, since it clearly promotes prophecies which are not good at all..
Why don't you choose a prophecy and show that it is really convincing taking into account:
time of writing
(a prophecy that can't be traced until after the events is no good)
purpose of writing (it had better be clear that it is a prediction rather than the "prediction" being retrofitted onto text that says nothing of the sort).
match to actual events - in accuracy AND detail. Time limits are especially important.
difficulty (a prediction that anyone at the time of writing could make is not convincing)
the possibility of self-fulfillment

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 Message 1 by Buzsaw, posted 05-14-2003 11:30 PM Buzsaw has not replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17828
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 12 of 82 (40384)
05-16-2003 4:37 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by Buzsaw
05-16-2003 12:22 AM


John has problbly said much the same but I want to make my own points.
1) This is the sort of self-aggrandisment that we should expect from cult leaders
Therefore we already have reason to discount it as a valid prophecy - it is the sort of thing that we could expect to be said whether it turns out to be true or false. It also serves to motivate the disciples to go out and spread the word by assuring them of great success - again a reaon which has nothign to do with prediction.
2) This point seems irrelevant. It assumes that Jesus was expecting to be executed whioch is far from certain.
3) Is likewise irrelevant - as I have pointed out likelihood of fulfilment is not an issue.
4) Is an outright falsehood. The major religions didn't much care.
5) These traditions are late and untrustworthy - and the whole point is irrelevant
6) Is again irrelevant The church was still very decentralised a couple of centuries later. I understand that the Orthodox church still is.
7) Is an exaggeration. There were periods of persecution but most Emperors did little.
6) Is just silly. The concept existed - so there is no way to argue that Jesus meant any part of the New World which does not beg the question. Clearly it is entirely possible that Jesus used the expression just as others of that tiem and place would.

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 Message 7 by Buzsaw, posted 05-16-2003 12:22 AM Buzsaw has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by truthlover, posted 05-16-2003 8:25 AM PaulK has replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17828
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 15 of 82 (40412)
05-16-2003 10:35 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by truthlover
05-16-2003 8:25 AM


I think you are misunderstanding my post. I did take it that buzsaw was addressign only one prophecy however he also included a list of points supposed to support that prophecy and that is the list I was criticising.
My point on probability of fulfilment is that it was not an issue for Jesus - he would be likely to make such a claim even if he realised that the probability was low (although he would likely not realise that even if it were low).
Thanks for the Colossians reference. I could add that Matthew 24:34 says that all these things will happen within a generation of Jesus speaking, and so the prophecy is actually a failure.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by truthlover, posted 05-16-2003 8:25 AM truthlover has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by truthlover, posted 05-16-2003 1:18 PM PaulK has not replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17828
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 29 of 82 (40493)
05-17-2003 4:47 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by Buzsaw
05-16-2003 9:49 PM


Re: Another non-prophecy
I'm going to be away for a week so any further discussion will have to wait.
But here are some facts.
1) Jesus did not end Temple worship - the Romans did
2) Animal sacrifice went with the Temple
3) Jesus may have had replacing the priesthood in mind but there is nothing I am aware of to suggest that he wanted to remove it and not replace it. If you have evidence please produce it.
4) Isn't this directly contrary to the Gospels's reporting of Jesus words ? Matthew 5:17-18 clearly indicates that the Law will continue untill Heaven and Earth pass away.
5) This is hardly contrary to the law.
And I find it absolutely amazing that you should laugh at the idea that we are not in the "End Times". Hal Lindsey wrote _The Late Great PLanet Earth_ in 1970. The Millerites were convinced that the end was nigh in the 19th Century. And so it goes on and on back to the original disciples who at least had assurances from Jesus that it would happen in their lifetime - that is what the Olivet Discourse says.
There were Jews in Jerusalem, surrounded by armies at the time of the Crusades. The Crusaders killed many of them when the city fell.
Weather patterns ? They have changed before - heard of the so-called "Little Ice Age" ?
The Industrial Revolution started in the 18th Century.
Looks like the End Times have lasted for 2000 years already.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Buzsaw, posted 05-16-2003 9:49 PM Buzsaw has not replied

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