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Author
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Topic: God caused or uncaused?
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mark24
Member (Idle past 5223 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: 12-01-2001
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Message 217 of 297 (418092)
08-26-2007 10:51 AM
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Reply to: Message 209 by Rob
08-26-2007 10:34 AM
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Re: Reality (God) is logical. And logic is uncaused
Rob,
That doesn't tell you how long she would have lived without smoking... That's neither here nor there, that she lived well beyond the average life expectancy is an observation, the inferrred conclusion is that it was the smoking that did it & that smoking is therefore good for you. The point is that as it stands it is a logically valid syllogism, & it is false. Logical coherence doesn't have to = truth. Sorry, but it doesn't. Now, we agreed the terms of this discusssion, so quit stalling & provide evidence of god, please. Mark
There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 209 by Rob, posted 08-26-2007 10:34 AM | | Rob has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 219 by Rob, posted 08-26-2007 10:59 AM | | mark24 has replied |
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mark24
Member (Idle past 5223 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: 12-01-2001
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Message 226 of 297 (418103)
08-26-2007 11:14 AM
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Reply to: Message 219 by Rob
08-26-2007 10:59 AM
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Re: Reality (God) is logical. And logic is uncaused
Rob,
Kind of a small sample size isn't it?....your grandmothers genetic predisposition as well as other enviromental factors Yes, but it's still a logically valid syllogism. It's also wrong. Crying about it won't change it. Any logically valid syllogism can be wrong as demontrated by new evidence. The concept of phlogiston was once a logically valid argument, now we know it's wrong. Meaning;
Yes it does. No, it doesn't. This is the second logically valid syllogism I've shown you that is wrong. What don't you understand? One should be enough.
Otherwise there is no truth for us to believe in like the TOE This is why science never caims to have the ultimate truth, it always allows for something to be wrong. But this is getting boring. Evidence of god, now. Time to put up or shut up. Mark Edited by mark24, : No reason given.
There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 219 by Rob, posted 08-26-2007 10:59 AM | | Rob has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 228 by Rob, posted 08-26-2007 11:17 AM | | mark24 has replied |
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mark24
Member (Idle past 5223 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: 12-01-2001
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Message 232 of 297 (418109)
08-26-2007 11:24 AM
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Reply to: Message 228 by Rob
08-26-2007 11:17 AM
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Re: Reality (God) is logical. And logic is uncaused
Rob,
Like the TOE? Like phlogiston, the plum-pudding theory of atomism, steady state cosmology, yes.
Because it is logical? Because you can never be 100% sure of anything. Evidence of god, please. Mark
There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 228 by Rob, posted 08-26-2007 11:17 AM | | Rob has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 234 by Rob, posted 08-26-2007 11:28 AM | | mark24 has replied |
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mark24
Member (Idle past 5223 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: 12-01-2001
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Message 237 of 297 (418115)
08-26-2007 11:35 AM
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Reply to: Message 234 by Rob
08-26-2007 11:28 AM
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Re: Reality (God) is logical. And logic is uncaused
Rob,
So to what do we look for clues? Logical consistency? Partly, we look for an evidentially supported & logically valid syllogism. In other words, a theory that is supported with evidence. The more evidence means the more confident we can be about the syllogism being correct, so more evidence is desirable. Mark
There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 234 by Rob, posted 08-26-2007 11:28 AM | | Rob has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 239 by Rob, posted 08-26-2007 11:37 AM | | mark24 has replied |
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mark24
Member (Idle past 5223 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: 12-01-2001
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Message 241 of 297 (418120)
08-26-2007 11:41 AM
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Reply to: Message 239 by Rob
08-26-2007 11:37 AM
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Re: Reality (God) is logical. And logic is uncaused
What of it?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 239 by Rob, posted 08-26-2007 11:37 AM | | Rob has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 249 by Rob, posted 08-26-2007 11:51 AM | | mark24 has replied |
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mark24
Member (Idle past 5223 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: 12-01-2001
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Message 250 of 297 (418129)
08-26-2007 11:53 AM
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Reply to: Message 249 by Rob
08-26-2007 11:51 AM
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Re: Reality (God) is logical. And logic is uncaused
Rob,
Logic ie. God ie. reality ie. exists! That logic = god is a baseless assertion. That god = reality is the same. Mark
There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 249 by Rob, posted 08-26-2007 11:51 AM | | Rob has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 256 by Rob, posted 08-26-2007 12:02 PM | | mark24 has replied |
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mark24
Member (Idle past 5223 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: 12-01-2001
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Message 260 of 297 (418139)
08-26-2007 12:14 PM
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Reply to: Message 256 by Rob
08-26-2007 12:02 PM
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Re: Reality (God) is logical. And logic is uncaused
Rob,
Is reality logical? No, it just is. We construct logical frameworks within which we explore the world around us. There's nothing "logical" about gravity, it just is, we may make logical statements about gravity, however. Mark
There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 256 by Rob, posted 08-26-2007 12:02 PM | | Rob has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 262 by Rob, posted 08-26-2007 12:43 PM | | mark24 has replied |
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mark24
Member (Idle past 5223 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: 12-01-2001
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Message 267 of 297 (418146)
08-26-2007 1:00 PM
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Reply to: Message 262 by Rob
08-26-2007 12:43 PM
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Re: Reality (God) is logical. And logic is uncaused
Rob,
And the fact that we see logical relationships between gravity and the objects it governs We don't see logical relationships, we may see consistent mathematical relationships, but that's not the same thing as logical relationships. There is nothing inherently more or less logical about the inverse square law as opposed to an inverse cube law. They just are.
and the fact that they are indeed logically consistent with our constructs show that reality is indeed logical even before we supposed to understand it? That means our theories are logical & evidentially supported, not the data we are observing. Mark
There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 262 by Rob, posted 08-26-2007 12:43 PM | | Rob has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 282 by Rob, posted 08-28-2007 1:06 AM | | mark24 has replied |
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mark24
Member (Idle past 5223 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: 12-01-2001
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Message 290 of 297 (418436)
08-28-2007 4:42 AM
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Reply to: Message 282 by Rob
08-28-2007 1:06 AM
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Re: Reality (God) is logical. And logic is uncaused
Rob,
So now mathematical relationships are not logical either? No, they are not syllogisms, which is the context of logic in which we are talking. Which is a more or less valid logical syllogism, the inverse square law or the inverse cubed law? It's a meaningless statement. Like which is more wet, a square or a circle. Reality isn't logical, it just is, applying the word "logic" to reality is inappropriate.
There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 282 by Rob, posted 08-28-2007 1:06 AM | | Rob has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 292 by Rob, posted 08-28-2007 10:14 AM | | mark24 has replied |
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mark24
Member (Idle past 5223 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: 12-01-2001
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Message 294 of 297 (418468)
08-28-2007 11:00 AM
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Reply to: Message 292 by Rob
08-28-2007 10:14 AM
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Re: Reality (God) is logical. And logic is uncaused
Rob,
Mathematical relationships obey the law of non contradiction. So what? What you are getting at is that physical laws are ordered & predictable, whether they can be described logically or not is a red herring. You can describe chaos theory logically & that has no order or predictability. What is more logical, the inverse square law or the inverse cube? How do you know that god got it right using one & not the other? How do you know what a naturally occurring relationship looks like compared to a designed one? Answer; you don't. Ergo, you cannot say that physical laws are designed or not. Your preconception that logic must be god is exactly that, a baseless preconception. Mark Edited by mark24, : No reason given.
There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 292 by Rob, posted 08-28-2007 10:14 AM | | Rob has not replied |
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