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Author Topic:   Citing Middle Eastern Prophecy Being Fulfilled
Rahvin
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Posts: 4046
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 7.6


Message 11 of 131 (460046)
03-12-2008 11:04 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by PaulK
03-12-2008 2:37 AM


Re: Wrong technology for the wrong times.
Or perhaps the prophecy really did mean past offences (real or not), really did mean the peoples of the prophet's own time, really did mean that the vengeance was coming in the near future and the added details really are part of the prophecy.
Why attribute problems with your interpretations to errors in the Bible ?
Becasue he needs the Biblical prophesy to be true to support his theology.
If any given prophesy in the Bible is rock-solid proven to be a false prophesy, it proves that the Bible is not infallible.
So any unfulfilled prophesy in the Bible, regardless of how much textual evidence shows that the passage is speaking about contemporary events and not far-off future ones, must simply be unfulfilled yet.
Revelations seems pretty strongly to be talking about the Roman empire, and was supposed to have happened soon after it was written? Well, the world hasn't ended yet, Jesus hasn't come again, so it must have simply not happened yet.
Jesus says he's coming "soon" almost 2000 years ago? Well by golly, 2000 years is like a blink of an eye to an immortal deity!
Buz needs this and every other prophesy in the Bible that wasn't fulfilled within its own pages to still potentially happen in the future. It doesn't matter how far wrong the prophesy becomes in a modern context, or that the people and nations discussed in the passage no longer exist as such (and have sometimes even been absorbed into those who are supposed to fight against them!). Buz needs the prophesy to potentially happen in the future, or all of Biblical literalism falls apart.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by PaulK, posted 03-12-2008 2:37 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by graft2vine, posted 03-12-2008 1:02 PM Rahvin has replied
 Message 19 by PaulK, posted 03-12-2008 3:01 PM Rahvin has not replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4046
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 7.6


Message 14 of 131 (460056)
03-12-2008 1:14 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by graft2vine
03-12-2008 1:02 PM


Re: Prophecy doesn't have to be fulfilled
Not all prophecy has to be fulfilled. Prophecy can be an event that will happen at a future time based just on current conditions. It can be given as a warning to cause change. We tell our children don't touch the hot stove or you will get burned. If they don't touch it because they listened to us, does that make it untrue?
And yet that's not the way Buz is interpreting this prophesy. Biblical literalism insists that the Bible is literally true, every word. That means that when a passage says "x is going to happen," it means "x is going to happen," not "x will happen unless you change your ways."
Prophecy is certainly more complex than touching a hot stove... I'm just trying to show the purpose of it. If someone is going to get annihilated anyway, why bother telling them?
I imagine the author of the passage was simply expressing his own personal anger by saying "my god is going to kick your ass for this!" But that doesn't match up with Biblical literalism. If the Bible is literally true, it has to mean exactly what it says - which means prophesies are supposed to be fulfilled, inevitably. For that to be the case, the literalist position has to be that any unfulfilled prophesies in the Bible will still be fulfilled at some point in the future.
These prophecies are called lamentations. A lamentation is something for them to lament, or grief, maybe reconsider their actions.
Personally, I would think they are more expressions of the author's frustrations. He laments that he personally can't do anything to change events, but fervently believes his deity will serve out the vengeance he desires.
But then, I'm not a literalist, like Buz is.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by graft2vine, posted 03-12-2008 1:02 PM graft2vine has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by graft2vine, posted 03-12-2008 2:15 PM Rahvin has replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4046
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 7.6


Message 17 of 131 (460072)
03-12-2008 2:46 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by graft2vine
03-12-2008 2:15 PM


Re: Prophecy doesn't have to be fulfilled
I'm not defending Buz or Biblical literalism. What I quoted from you is about the Bible being "infallible". Lets not confuse literal with infallible. The Bible can be accurate and inerrant without being completely literal, but in parts metaphor, allegory. It is true in its intent. God could very well have done what He intended, but He is a merciful God. He is not going to continue to yell "Die sucker!" while someone is lamenting.
Then all of your comments constitute a red herring, as I was specifically addressing Buz's requirements for prophesy to be literally true, and have not been talking about possible metaphorical interpretations at all. I thought that was made perfectly clear.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by graft2vine, posted 03-12-2008 2:15 PM graft2vine has replied

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Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4046
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 7.6


Message 23 of 131 (460124)
03-12-2008 9:19 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by bluegenes
03-12-2008 8:30 PM


Take examples from other Biblical stories of mass destruction, like Soddom. Fire and brimstone from the sky? Look to Revelations as well. When a person sees something, they try to describe what they've seen, not translate it into contemporary terms.
It's not hard for someone who has never seen modern weaponry to describe their first glimpse, and the descriptions are unlikely to simply be "swords and arrows." Think "flinging balls of fire" or "raining fire and destruction from the sky."
If you took a completely sheltered person from say, a South American Indian tribe from the middle of the rain forest and showed him a battle scene from Iraq, I seriously doubt he'd call an RPG a "bow and arrow." I'm pretty sure he'd call it some sort of weapon of the gods, and describe it as some great weapon that shoots fireballs.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by bluegenes, posted 03-12-2008 8:30 PM bluegenes has replied

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