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Author
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Topic: Is God Evil?
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Huntard
Member (Idle past 2326 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: 09-02-2008
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Message 6 of 179 (532750)
10-26-2009 8:26 AM
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Reply to: Message 3 by iano
10-26-2009 6:35 AM
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Iano writes: Hi Wotak and welcome to EvC. Murder is generally considered an 'unrighteous killing'. But on what basis can God killing be deemed unrighteous: he's only taking back something that; a) belongs to him b) he's promised he'll take back ..to whit, a human life. Surely you have no objection to God doing what he likes with his own property - especially if it's what he's promised to do with it? Now if God is acting righteously (assuming you can't pose a means whereby he isn't acting so), how can what he does be considered evil?
So, when I have a dog (which is my property), and I've promised I was gonna torture it for seven years straight, and then did it, that would make me a good person in your book?
I hunt for the truth I am the one Orgasmatron, the outstretched grasping hand My image is of agony, my servants rape the land Obsequious and arrogant, clandestine and vain Two thousand years of misery, of torture in my name Hypocrisy made paramount, paranoia the law My name is called religion, sadistic, sacred whore. -Lyrics by Lemmy Kilmister of Motorhead
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 3 by iano, posted 10-26-2009 6:35 AM | | iano has replied |
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Huntard
Member (Idle past 2326 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: 09-02-2008
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Re: God to Humans
purpledawn writes: You're not a supreme being.
And? The only two points Iano mentioned were that something needed to be your porperty, and that you should've made a promise to do something to it. But what you're saying is that when I was a supreme being, I'd be a good one for doing exactly what i described in my response to Iano?
I find it interesting that when assumptions are made that God exists, the Bible is the word of God, and the events actually happened; the opposition goes straight to human behavior.
Ok, then, same question to you, only this time, I'm a supreme being. I torture the dog for seven years, am I now a good supreme being?
What is a supreme being allowed to do? Anything he wants!
Actually, no he isn't. Not if he claims to be a good being.
I hunt for the truth I am the one Orgasmatron, the outstretched grasping hand My image is of agony, my servants rape the land Obsequious and arrogant, clandestine and vain Two thousand years of misery, of torture in my name Hypocrisy made paramount, paranoia the law My name is called religion, sadistic, sacred whore. -Lyrics by Lemmy Kilmister of Motorhead
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 10 by purpledawn, posted 10-26-2009 9:09 AM | | purpledawn has replied |
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Huntard
Member (Idle past 2326 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: 09-02-2008
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Re: God to Humans
purpledawn writes: He was talking about God, who is a supreme being, not a general answer concerning anything. (Reality: In those days people (not just Hebrews) probably were allowed to do what they wanted with what they owned, women and children included.)
Does this make it good to do so?
The OP made assumptions. You being a supreme being is not one of them. You want a real answer to a fictional question with no foundation.
Ok, fine, if god did it, then would you consider him good for doing so?
Where does God claim to be good in the OT?
So, you're agreeing god is not good?
I hunt for the truth I am the one Orgasmatron, the outstretched grasping hand My image is of agony, my servants rape the land Obsequious and arrogant, clandestine and vain Two thousand years of misery, of torture in my name Hypocrisy made paramount, paranoia the law My name is called religion, sadistic, sacred whore. -Lyrics by Lemmy Kilmister of Motorhead
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 13 by purpledawn, posted 10-26-2009 9:59 AM | | purpledawn has replied |
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Huntard
Member (Idle past 2326 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: 09-02-2008
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Message 22 of 179 (532780)
10-26-2009 11:38 AM
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Reply to: Message 21 by purpledawn
10-26-2009 11:32 AM
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Re: Moral Code of Supreme Beings
purpledawn writes: Do we say ancient people were evil because their values were different?
I sure do.
We may perceive the actions as evil today, but were they considered evil at the time?
Irrelevant.
I agree, those actions by our standards today would be considered morally reprehensible.
Well then, that settles it, I guess.
Some of the assumptions of omnipotence, omniscience and such; cloud your perception.
Not really, no. If he was or wasn't those things is irrelevant to the fact those actions are evil.
So if he isn't omniscient and therefore didn't know ahead of time; what does that alter in your perception?
Nothing in mine.
Does God say he can see everything in the infinite future?
Irrelevant.
What I'm saying is be a judge and base your verdict on the evidence in the book, not hearsay. Read all the evidence, not just one line.
The evidence quite clearly shows he killed lots and lots of people. I call doing that evil.
I hunt for the truth I am the one Orgasmatron, the outstretched grasping hand My image is of agony, my servants rape the land Obsequious and arrogant, clandestine and vain Two thousand years of misery, of torture in my name Hypocrisy made paramount, paranoia the law My name is called religion, sadistic, sacred whore. -Lyrics by Lemmy Kilmister of Motorhead
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 21 by purpledawn, posted 10-26-2009 11:32 AM | | purpledawn has not replied |
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Huntard
Member (Idle past 2326 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: 09-02-2008
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Message 27 of 179 (532786)
10-26-2009 12:12 PM
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Reply to: Message 23 by purpledawn
10-26-2009 11:48 AM
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Re: God to Humans
purpledawn writes: In today's society no, but the stories don't take place in today's society.
Irrelevant. It was wrong then, it is wrong now, and it will always be wrong.
Even in American history men were allowed to do what they wanted with what they owned, women and children included.
And that was evil.
There's no basis for the action and no you can't concoct a basis for the action because you aren't a supreme being.
You sure like to dodge this question, don't you?
In the stories, there is usually a reason for why God did what he did.
And that makes it ok?
No, I asked where does God claim to be good in the OT? I claim that in monotheism the god carries both characteristics.
Ok. But his good deeds don't make his evil deeds ok.
He does what can be perceived as good by our standards today and he can do what is perceived as reprehensible by our standards today.
So, basically, you agree. God did some despiccable things. He also did some good things. By no means does this make it ok to do evil things.
I hunt for the truth I am the one Orgasmatron, the outstretched grasping hand My image is of agony, my servants rape the land Obsequious and arrogant, clandestine and vain Two thousand years of misery, of torture in my name Hypocrisy made paramount, paranoia the law My name is called religion, sadistic, sacred whore. -Lyrics by Lemmy Kilmister of Motorhead
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 23 by purpledawn, posted 10-26-2009 11:48 AM | | purpledawn has not replied |
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Huntard
Member (Idle past 2326 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: 09-02-2008
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Message 34 of 179 (532796)
10-26-2009 1:42 PM
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Reply to: Message 33 by iano
10-26-2009 1:30 PM
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iano writes: Is the dog your property or is it, along with you, God's property?
Mine of course. That's what I said. Quit dodging the question. But if it will make you feel more comfortable, It's god who does what I do. He tortures the dog after promising he would. Does this make god good?
I hunt for the truth I am the one Orgasmatron, the outstretched grasping hand My image is of agony, my servants rape the land Obsequious and arrogant, clandestine and vain Two thousand years of misery, of torture in my name Hypocrisy made paramount, paranoia the law My name is called religion, sadistic, sacred whore. -Lyrics by Lemmy Kilmister of Motorhead
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 33 by iano, posted 10-26-2009 1:30 PM | | iano has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 36 by iano, posted 10-26-2009 2:15 PM | | Huntard has replied |
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Huntard
Member (Idle past 2326 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: 09-02-2008
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Message 45 of 179 (532830)
10-26-2009 5:56 PM
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Reply to: Message 36 by iano
10-26-2009 2:15 PM
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iano writes: It appears you've dodged the answer.
Dodged the answer? You haven't given me one. It's a simple yes or no, you know...
Where does God torture a dog?
Oh for fucks sake. It's a "what if" question. And seeing as you said there were two things we should take into account (one being it's god's property, the other being he made a promise), and I presented you with these two, answer the question yes or no: If there's a dog, and god promised to torture it for seven years, and then went ahead and did it, does this make him good? Yes or no, that's all I ask.
I hunt for the truth I am the one Orgasmatron, the outstretched grasping hand My image is of agony, my servants rape the land Obsequious and arrogant, clandestine and vain Two thousand years of misery, of torture in my name Hypocrisy made paramount, paranoia the law My name is called religion, sadistic, sacred whore. -Lyrics by Lemmy Kilmister of Motorhead
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 36 by iano, posted 10-26-2009 2:15 PM | | iano has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 47 by iano, posted 10-26-2009 6:18 PM | | Huntard has replied |
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Huntard
Member (Idle past 2326 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: 09-02-2008
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Message 52 of 179 (532872)
10-27-2009 2:26 AM
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Reply to: Message 47 by iano
10-26-2009 6:18 PM
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iano writes: You drew a false comparison. You belong to God but the dog doesn't belong to you - it belongs to God.
I belong to no one, thank you very much.
It wouldn't make him good anymore than flooding the worlds inhabitants makes him good. He is good before he does a thing and because he is good, it follow that his actions are good. Thus flooding the world was good - as would torturing a dog be good were he to do so.
Thank you for your answer. Now, since you perceive torturing or killing as a good thing as long as god does it, I sincerely hope you never here a voice in your head you think is god telling you to do just that.
It seems strange that you'd chose a hypothetical something God didn't (iirc) do when there is such a wealth of possiblity to chose from regarding property of his and promises he makes.
It was to make a point. The point that your morals aren't really up there when it comes to god. I don't know how anyone could say those despicable actions are anything but evil, regardless of who does them.
I hunt for the truth I am the one Orgasmatron, the outstretched grasping hand My image is of agony, my servants rape the land Obsequious and arrogant, clandestine and vain Two thousand years of misery, of torture in my name Hypocrisy made paramount, paranoia the law My name is called religion, sadistic, sacred whore. -Lyrics by Lemmy Kilmister of Motorhead
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 47 by iano, posted 10-26-2009 6:18 PM | | iano has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 54 by iano, posted 10-27-2009 4:54 AM | | Huntard has not replied |
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