Is God Evil?

Allow me to first state that I am a pretty agnostic fellow. I don't hold a strong belief that there is or isn't a God. I do however believe that if there is a God, he is one very evil being. I base this belief on the Bible itself. I have no strong belief one way or the other that this book is indeed the word of God, or that it isn't. For the sake of this discussion, I will assume that it is and that the overwhelming majority of Christians believe that it is. With that being pretty much an undisputed fact, let's examine the words and work of what I believe to be (if he exists) the most evil being/entity/god that humanity has ever known.*GE 6:11-17, 7:11-24 God believes that man has gone wicked and decides to do something about it. He kills every living thing on the face of the earth. Only Noah's family and two of each animal are spared.Ok, if this is true, then God is, by FAR, the biggest mass murderer known to man. Just thinking of all those poor infants and children who were drowned in this story makes me feel a little ill. How could any being drown little children and infants and consider that a good thing to do?*EX 9:22-25 A plague of hail from the Lord strikes down everything in the fields of Egypt both man and beast except in Goshen where the Israelites reside.Again, more mass murder. It's almost as if this being treats humans with the same regard that humans treat cockroaches. How can this being be considered loving and perfect while committing such atrocities? Who in their right mind would worship or praise such a being except to go through the motions out of sheer terror for their own lives and the lives of their children? How could this type of behavior be considered love?*EX 12:29 The Lord kills all the first-born in the land of Egypt.Ok, more baby killing. What is it with this evil being and his apparent disregard for the lives of helpless infants and children?*EX 17:13 With the Lord's approval, Joshua mows down Amalek and his people.Now this one sounds as if it's right out of a plot from a Mob movie. God ok's the hit and Amalek and his people all get wacked by Joshua. First of all, why didn't God just do the killing himself? He's already shown that mass murder is something that he adept at, why send in a hit-man to do the job?*EX 21:20-21 With the Lord's approval, a slave may be beaten to death with no punishment for the perpetrator as long as the slave doesn't die too quickly.Ok, so ordering hits isn't good enough. Now this loving God is demanding that human slaves should not only be killed by their human owners but that to be done correctly in his eyes they must be slowly tortured to death. Now that's just plain evil.*EX 32:27 "Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbor.Now, the human race is guilty of some atrocities of its own but this one just just confounds me. God has already proven that he can and will dispatch millions of humans on his own, quickly and easily... so why is it that he needs an army to kill everything in sight? What is he to gain by not just adding a few million more notches to his own murder belt?*EX 32:27-29 With the Lord's approval, the Israelites slay 3000 men.Just like that, 3000 men are rubber stamped for death and killed. Heck, the 911 terrorists killed less than that and we consider their actions evil. How could anyone in their right mind not consider this being an evil entity?*LE 26:22 "I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children."Sheesh, now he's gone and sent in the wildlife to kill the poor, innocent children. What kind of being sends carnivore after our children? That's just plain Evil Evil.*LE 26:29, DT 28:53, JE 19:9, EZ 5:8-10 As a punishment, the Lord will cause people to eat the flesh of their own sons and daughters and fathers and friends.Oh my goodness. Now he has us eating our own children. This takes evil to an entire new level.*NU 15:32-36 A Sabbath breaker (who had gathered sticks for a fire) is stoned to death at the Lord's command.Alright God, now you're just being petty. You order people to slowly bludgeon a poor dude to death with stones because he picked up a few sticks on a Sunday? Are you kidding me? The guy picked up a few sticks, he didn't have homosexual relations with a child on an alter or something. It was sticks, he picked them up for Christs sake. You're just out of control, dude.*NU 16:27-33 The Lord causes the earth to open and swallow up the men and their households (including wives and children) because the men had been rebellious.*NU 16:35 A fire from the Lord consumes 250 men.*NU 16:49 A plague from the Lord kills 14,700 people.Angry, angry guy this God is, no? I mean, did he create humans just so he would have something to kill? It sure seems that way. Dead people everywhere. How does this being even remotely get mistaken for a all good entity?*NU 25:9 24,000 people die in a plague from the Lord.*NU 31:31-40 32,000 virgins are taken by the Israelites as booty. Thirty-two are set aside (to be sacrificed?) as a tribute for the Lord.Wow, another 56K dead, just like that. This God entity has turned into a Holy Terror if you ask me.*NU 31:17-18 Moses, following the Lord's command, orders the Israelites to kill all the Midianite male children and "... every woman who has known man ...."More dead kids and women. If that's not pure, unbridled evil - I don't know what is.It goes on and on like this... Heck one million Ethiopians were killed. One million. Some estimate that God killed well over two million people who's deaths were documented in the Bible. Others estimate many more but for the sake of this discussion I'll use the conservative estimate. And that's just what was documented in the "good book". I'm sure there were some that didn't make the list judging by the warpath this entity was on.I mean, this isn't a few kittens being drowned in a burlap sack evil. This is evil on a scale almost unheard of on this planet. How can there even be a question as to the pure evilness of this being?I mean, come on, Satan was only rumored to have killed like 10 people in the Bible, and even those 10 had to be approved by God first. How is it that he got such a bad rap in the Bible? The Bible, Gods own word, tells us that you are a few hundred thousand time more likely to have your wife, children and even yourself killed by him than you are by the bad guy in the story. Wait, what? How does that make any sense to anyone?Hitler killed between 5 and 6 million Jews. Most human beings consider him evil without debate. Am I to then surmise that had God killed 5 million humans rather than just a measly 2.5 million that he too would be considered an evil mass murderer?So I ask you: How can God not be considered one of the evilest beings ever known to the human race?

This is a good discussion so far although I would like to remind some of you that the question is: Is God Evil?Evil as defined by the human race is either and adjective or a noun or it could be both, I suppose.Adj.-Morally bad or wrong; wicked: an evil tyrant.
-Causing ruin, injury, or pain; harmful: the evil effects of a poor diet.
-Characterized by or indicating future misfortune; ominous: evil omens.
-Bad or blameworthy by report; infamous: an evil reputation.
-Characterized by anger or spite; malicious: an evil temper.I think it is safe to determine, without doubt, that forcing people to eat their children is an evil deed. It's safe to say that God, if he exists, has caused much ruin, injury and pain. It is also safe to say that God often acts out of anger, spite and with malicious intent. I mean, murdering one million Ethiopians alone was a pretty malicious act. These actions and many more are detailed in Gods own words. Therefore, any human being with an iota of common sense can surmise that Gods actions in the Bible are, quite often, Evil.Evil can also be defined as a noun:Noun.-The quality of being morally bad or wrong; wickedness.
-That which causes harm, misfortune, or destruction: a leader's power to do both good and evil.
-An evil force, power, or personification.
-Something that is a cause or source of suffering, injury, or destruction: the social evils of poverty and injustice.Now, if we examine the documented actions of this being and the suffering, destruction, misfortune, injury and outright malice he has unleashed upon the living creatures of this planet since Adam and Eve were banned from the garden of Eden, it is safe to say - in no uncertain terms, that these are the actions of an evil entity.No non-evil entity has ever sent carnivores into your homes to steal your children. No non-evil entity has ever drowned every living thing on the planet while only sparing a few. No non-evil entity has ever given Satan permission to take human lives, and certainly there has never been a non-evil entity that has given life to a living being only to order other living beings to torture that being until the life was slowly and agonizingly, ripped away from it.Now, I contend that there is no sane argument to the contrary regarding the above sentiment. There is no avoiding the reality that this being is literally defined as evil. The evidence is right here in black and white.One can wish that things were different but that does not make them so. One can not refute reality. To do so is to enter into a discussion that involves what-ifs and could-have-beens and once a discussion has become watered down to that level we may as well start discussing the existence of Smurfs.Now, for the sake of this discussion, I am agreeing that there is a God and that this Gods words and works are written on the pages of the Bible. I am not in contention with the Bible or the inference that it is indeed the word of God. I am simply reading it and describing the evil deeds documented within it.Any being that can claim to love man on one hand while simultaneously torturing man with the evil depicted in this book is a deceptive and evil entity. This is not only a dishonest, angry and deceptive being but, in fact, his actions more closely resemble the very description the book gives of Satan than do Satan's own actions within the very same book. How can any sentient being overlook the enormous, undeniable amount of hypocrisy within this book and claim that this being is all good, all loving and a being worthy of eternal worship and adoration?To be honest, when I read this book and dwell on the existence of this God, I actually hope and pray that he doesn't exist. There is enough evil on this planet caused by man alone. I dread the thought that an all powerful being with a resume as evil as God's is could actually exist. This doesn't make me love him it makes me fear for all mankind that this hideous butcher and tormentor may actually exist.But one thing is pretty undeniable; if he does exist, he must be evil. Nothing else can describe the actions he so carefully describes in his own journal; the Bible.

Well, this little thread seems to have run itself to completion, quite as I had expected it would. Reading through the above posts I see convincing arguments from both sides although the arguments taken by the 'not evil' camp seem pretty apologetic while the 'evil' camp seems pretty solid in presenting a valid argument that God is indeed an evil entity.The only party that we haven't heard from during this entire discussion seems to be God himself. I have, therefore, taken the liberty of digging up as many quotes as I could from God pertaining to evil. Here is God himself speaking of evil:Isaiah 45:7 - I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.So here, God admits that he is the creator of evil. It is my opinion and the opinion of common sense that a non-evil entity would not create evil.Exodus 32:14 - And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.For an all knowing being, God sure does second think himself a lot. Why would the creator of evil, which must be good because all of God's creations are good (his words, not mine), be repentant about anything?Joshua 23:15 - Therefore it shall come to pass, that as all good things are come upon you, which the LORD your God promised you; so shall the LORD bring upon you all evil things.shall the LORD bring upon you all evil thingsLORD bring upon you all evil thingsall evil thingsJudges 9:23 - Then God sent an evil spiritGod himself created and then sent forth an evil spirit. This doesn't sound like something a non-evil being would do.1 Samuel 16:14 - But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.The evil spirit from the LORD... He seems to throw around evil spirits like t-shirts at a football game.2 Samuel 12:11 - Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own houseNot only will he create some evil just for you but he'll do it within your own house. Evil house calls? Sounds like an extra dedicated evil being to me.1 Kings 9:9 - ...therefore hath the LORD brought upon them all this evil.It's like he's trying to put Satan out of work or something.1 Kings 14:10 - "Therefore, behold, I will bring evil upon the house of Jeroboam"In layman's terms: "Watch me throw a bunch of evil on this guy and his family just to prove to you that I can do it."2 Kings 6:33 - ...Behold, this evil is of the LORD;Well, he is the creator of all things, so yeah, it would be his evil.2 Kings 21:12 - Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Behold, I am bringing such evil upon Jerusalem and Judah, that whosoever heareth of it, both his ears shall tingle.Surely this must be some extra special evil to make your ears tingle while simply being told about it. Not only does he seem to be an extremely evil being, he's also quite the creative one, no?2 Kings 22:16 - Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will bring evil upon this placeThere he goes again, showing off his evil and throwing it around like a frisbee in order to get his point across.2 Chronicles 34:24 - Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will bring evil upon this place, and upon the inhabitants thereof......and again. He seems to really like an audience when he bringing that evil, doesn't he?Jeremiah 4:6 - Set up the standard toward Zion: retire, stay not: for I will bring evil from the north, and a great destruction.The creator of evil bringing great destruction? You don't say...Jeremiah 6:19 - Hear, O earth: behold, I will bring evil upon this peoplePlaying to the crowd again. It's like an evil-a-thon Broadway production.Jeremiah 11:11 - Therefore thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will bring evil upon themI'm starting to see a pattern here...Jeremiah 25:29 - For, lo, I begin to bring evilHmm...Jeremiah 35:17 - Therefore thus saith the LORD God of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will bring upon Judah and upon all the inhabitants of Jerusalem all the evil that I have pronounced against them.Yes. Yes indeed. There is a faint pattern developing...Jeremiah 44:2 - Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Ye have seen all the evil that I have brought upon Jerusalem, and upon all the cities of JudahNow he bragging about the evil and making sure everyone that didn't see it knows that he did it. Nice.Jeremiah 45:5 - ...behold, I will bring evil upon all flesh, saith the LORD.all flesh... wow. Nobody get's a pardon. Even the devoutly faithful get an evil sandwich. Who in their right mind would worship such a horrible being?Jeremiah 49:37 - ...I will bring evil upon them, even my fierce anger, saith the LORD; and I will send the sword after them, till I have consumed them.Still bringing that evil and anger. It's almost like watching an abusive, alcoholic husband and father come home from the bar in a bad mood. Unbelievable.Micah 1:12 - ...evil came down from the LORDYou don't say...Micah 2:3 - Therefore thus saith the LORD; Behold, against this family do I devise an evilYou see, this family get's a custom made evil presented to them by the LORD himself. What's not to love about this fellow?Ezekiel 20:25-26 - Moreover I gave them statutes that were not good and ordinances by which they could not have life; and I defiled them through their very gifts in making them offer by fire all their first-born, that I might horrify them; I did it that they might know that I am the LORD.That has got to be the most evil thing I have ever read. He gave them rules to follow so that they could prove their loyalty. They then dutifully followed them... but it was just a trick to drown them in evil... all just to prove he was God? WTF is that all about? "Ha ha, suckers, I fooled you!"I'm sorry people but the evidence is in. This is an evil entity. Of this there is absolutely no doubt.

If the assumption is that the Bible is the word of God, then the words in the Bible are God's words, not some unknown narrator's. God is the narrator. It is his his story presented to us exactly as he chose to present it to us.I sit on the sidelines and watch the discussion for exactly this reason. I'm not interested in discussing what the definition of the word 'is' is. I'm not interested in the detour signs that the blind faithful like to toss into discussions such as these. I have asked a simple question and I'm looking for a simple answer; yes or no.If I have posted a quote that you feel is not the word of God, please toss it out. The Lord knows that Christians have little trouble tossing out parts of the Bible while clinging white-knuckled to others, anyway, right? I mean, the 10 commandments were written in stone but the great flood is just a fable... how forward thinking of Christians to continuously edit their interpretations of the infallible word of God the creator in order to escape the corners his book paints them into...The answer to the question is either yes or no: Is God Evil?Or, feel free to keep spinning if you must.

Yes, but this God we are discussing, well, he quite often throws gobs and gobs evil onto innocent children.I'd say that just makes him just plain evil.

Either you are being dishonest or you've never read:Deuteronomy 24:16 Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor children for their fathers; only for his own guilt shall a man be put to death.Jeremiah 31:30 ... through his own fault only shall anyone die...Ezekiel 18:20 Only the one who sins will die. The son shall not be charged with the sins of the father, nor shall the father be charged with the guilt of the son....and yet,Exodus 20:5 & Numbers 14:18 & Deuteronomy 5:9 all document that God said: I am a jealous God inflicting punishment on the children for generations for their father’s wickednessExodus 34:7 The sins of the father will be punished upon his future children and grandchildren to the 3rd and 4th generation for their father's wickedness.According to the above, God is an evil liar.Jn:8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.Gen:3:4-5 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. ...and yet he tells us that Satan is evil because he is an evil liar.God is evil. There is no other explanation.

He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truthThis single sentence describes both Satan and God, if we are to take the words within the bible literally.Why is it that God chose to introduce and describe the Devil that he created in a manner that he could also be described?...and if he isn't evil, why did he create Satan in the first place?...or was that also a lie?

Noted.

Edited by Peg, 11-04-2009 2:54 AM: No reason given.

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Edited by Peg, 11-04-2009 3:26 AM: No reason given.You have much to hide, my Peg.Let me ask you a serious question:Have you heard of Vasudeva?I spoke to Vasudeva this morning regarding this thread and he had this to say:In other words, God is a megalomaniacal a$$hole who kills on a whim and has no particular goals?After reading his response and seeing your unrecorded edits, I must say, what are you really up to here?Is God Evil?Yes, that is the question I have asked.Is God a megalomaniacal a$$hole who kills on a whim and has no particular goals?(PRO TIP) ...you don't have to answer that second question because it is not a part of the OT....but you want to, don't you? (!)

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Yes, you do. (!)In fact, you want to answer that question so bad that you will attempt to not answer it for as long as possible while hoping that a Mod or two will jump in to save you.Or, perhaps, you actually want to post a response without a few unrecorded edits?*Wotak sets his dragEdited by Wotak, : I may have lied, much like the God of the Bible.Edited by Wotak, : )

Or perhaps you are in cahoots with this megalomaniacal God?Perhaps there is a kinder, gentler, more rational being that wishes only that you open your eyes and know the truth?Is God Evil?I think that he is at least more evil than Satan is.Edited by Wotak, : I didn't mention 'the devil' because I'm not fishing for that particular know-it-all yet.

You need to edit this comment a few times because... well, nobody is looking, anyway... right?I mean, who's going to know what you edited?:-)

Do it, Peg. Do it every time.

I would like an in-depth lecture on this biological/genetic trait. I don't remember ever covering this in my years of biological study.Could you please start a new thread to educate the masses on this great discovery of the sinner gene?It almost sounds to me as if you've sort of taken Darwins theory and bastardized it into some sort of ridiculous ID type thing with less fact and even more ridiculous.Can you elaborate?Edited by Wotak, : Added second quote