Both or neither.

Teach either Creation AND Evolution as two conflicting THEORIES that go with the evidence, or teach neither.Just don't teach either as science, cos they aren't. Science is to do with the PRESENT. Conducting experiments, measuring the results and repeating them yada yada yada.I'm sure you are all familliar with scientific method, if you aren't you shouldn't be here.

Thats debatable.The thing is that whatever happened, Creation or Evolution only happened once, and was not observed by anyone. I mean, whether this violates scientific method is debatable, for me it does, but thats my opinion.There are many aspects of both theories IMOHO which don't fit the evidence. I have no time to note them now but will be back.

Okay, I gots plenty of time here...Right, problems with evoloution. I'm not exactly well educated so tell me if these have been resolved.Lack of transient forms in the fossil record.The general dehumanisation and evilness that has come from evolutionary teaching. (Points at aborigonies, blacks, etc.) Yes, I remember the crusades too, but I feel these are not relavent because the crusades were not really related to *creation* but Christianity.Creation is purely the idea that we were created, from scratch, by a being external to the universe, and although speciation has produced different finches, different jellyfish etc. It has not done any more that variate species and geni (is that the plural of genus?), well, thats what I mean when I use the term.Irreducible complexity.The general damn improbableness of it all...Okay, problems with creation: I was brought up a creationist and so have not really paid that much attention to the anti-creationist articles, but from what I gather the main problem people have with creation is the idea that they are accountable to a greater being.This is regarded as 'unscientific'.Yeah, thats my view. Correct any mistakes. If we have not an open mind we have nothing.-sconzey

Dehumanisation and evilness...Okay... I am talking about the fact that certain races were abused and experimented on due to the belief that they were lesser evolved sub-humans... Aboriginies, Native Americans, Blacks... Correct me if I am mistaken.Creation is part of Christianity, but Creation is also part of many other religions... Granted, most if not all of the anti-evoloutionist party come from Christianity, but lets not generalise here...I would love to hear crashfrogs refutation.Improbableness... This is based on many things... I am one of those people fanatical for mathematical proof...Right, the chimp argument. For those of you not familliar one famous evolutionist who's name I forget (remind me), said that the victory of chance would be proven by the fact that a load of apes, in a room of computers would eventually produce the complete works of shakespeare or, I think it was the Lord's Prayer.Okay, lets do some maths, first one chimp... We start with the assumption that they press one key per second... there are 116 keys on my keyboard... So that means they have a 1/116 chance of pressing the 'correct key'The probability of pressing the 'right' keys twice in a row will be 1/116*1/116 = 7.43163e-5 or 0.0000743163.Thats two letters.Pressing one key per second, that gives us 13456 seconds, (1/0.0000743163), or 224.267 minutes, or just under 4 hours.Right, the first two words of The Lord's Prayer are 'Our Father (who art in heaven hallowed be thy name yada yada yada)'Thats ten letters ignoring case. If you had sticky keys, then it would be twelve with the correct case.That gives us (1/116)^12 = 1.68463e-25 or 0.0000000000000000000000000168463Time? 5.9e24 seconds. 9.9e22 minutes. 1.6e21 hours. 6.9e19 days. 1.9e17 years. Thats longer than the world is old supposed to be old (4.5 billion years to the last estimate I heard, or 4.5e9 for comparison).To type two words.At one key per second on a standard qwerty keyboard, ignoring erronous sequences such as pressing the windoze key and having to exit the start menu etc. :-)And thats an optimistic assumption.Okay, so divide it by a thousand, make it 1000 monkeys. Thats 1.9e13.Now tell me evolution happened in 4.5 billion years.And yes, my last comment on my previous post was circular reasoning, I withdraw it.In my next post I will extend this to calculate the probability of a protein chain forming from the correct sequence of amino acids.

Yeah, the point that was made about the correct soloution being saved, I thought of also, but too late, I already had people replying to my post. :$With regards to abiogenesis, I think I have found a more accurate example...The following are my words, but not my thoughts. It was paraphrased from an essay by Dr John P Marcus. It can be found on pages 162 and 163 of the book In Six Days.First, seventy five protiens need to be present together with the prequisite DNA and RNA for life to arise.So, let us calculate the probability of just one of these protiens arising by chance.Lets make it a simple one, say smaller than average at 100 amino acids.The nessecary left handed amino acids need to be in the same place at the same time, and interfering compounds, such as right handed amino acids need to be removed.All by chance.The amino acids then need to join at a rate faster than the one at which proteins usually decompose...Even then the chance would be 1 in 20^100; 20 amino acids available, raised to the power of the number of residues in the protein, i.e. 1 in 1.268x10^130.Lets put this in perspective... The earth has a mass of 5.97x10^27g. If the entire mass of the earth was converted to amino acids, there would be in the order of 3.27x10^49 amino acid molecules available. If all of these molecules were converted into 100-residue proteins, there would be 3.27x10^47 proteins.Since there are 1.268x10^130 possible combinations of amino acids in a 100-residue protein, the chances of having *just one* correct sequence in the *whole globe* is 1 in 3.88x10^82!!Even if the protiens could rearrange themselves into all the different combinations in the 1.45x10^17 seconds available, they would have to be rearranging themselves 2.67x10^65 times per second!This is physically impossible.4.6 billion years may be a long time, but it is nowhere near long enough...I'll get down off my soapbox and put my whiteboard away. :-P