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Author Topic:   Both or neither.
sfs
Member (Idle past 2564 days)
Posts: 464
From: Cambridge, MA USA
Joined: 08-27-2003


Message 52 of 134 (79170)
01-17-2004 11:04 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by TruthDetector
01-17-2004 10:50 PM


quote:
Why can't anything that eaches the young earth theory, or the global flood theory, ect ( all legit theories), be taught in science class?
Because your premise is wrong: they're not legit theories. Scientifically, they're complete rubbish. That by itself doesn't mean they can't be taught in science classes (at least constitutionally). What matters is that people only advocate them because of religious motivation. Since they have no nonreligious support, and represent a specific set of religious beliefs, teaching them (not to be confused with teaching about them) represents a constitutionally forbidden exercise of state power in favor of a particular religion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by TruthDetector, posted 01-17-2004 10:50 PM TruthDetector has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by TruthDetector, posted 01-18-2004 4:16 PM sfs has replied

  
sfs
Member (Idle past 2564 days)
Posts: 464
From: Cambridge, MA USA
Joined: 08-27-2003


Message 89 of 134 (79318)
01-18-2004 8:49 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by TruthDetector
01-18-2004 4:38 PM


quote:
If they're is a 48%, a 30%, a 2%, and a 20% it is still a majority.
No, that's a plurality.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by TruthDetector, posted 01-18-2004 4:38 PM TruthDetector has not replied

  
sfs
Member (Idle past 2564 days)
Posts: 464
From: Cambridge, MA USA
Joined: 08-27-2003


Message 90 of 134 (79321)
01-18-2004 8:59 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by TruthDetector
01-18-2004 4:16 PM


quote:
There is a legit arguement for all of those. ( young earth, global flood theory, ect) How do YOU think they are rubbish. probably becauuse you don't agree with them!
No, I don't think they're rubbish because I disagree with them -- there are lots of things that I disagree with that I can see rational reasons for accepting. They're rubbish not because they're theories that are wrong, but because they aren't even theories. There's no model that connects the creationist claims to the observed data. Nowhere in YEC is there a coherent, consistent theory that is used to explain a range of data. What creationists offer is at best a bunch of ad hoc explanations that frequently contradict one another; the rest of the time they don't offer anything at all -- they just ignore the data. That's true of the bulk of the data in my own field. Creationism simply has no explanantion for it, and ignores it. I find it impossible to accord much respect to "theories" that resolutely turn their back on reality.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by TruthDetector, posted 01-18-2004 4:16 PM TruthDetector has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 105 by TruthDetector, posted 01-20-2004 8:11 PM sfs has replied

  
sfs
Member (Idle past 2564 days)
Posts: 464
From: Cambridge, MA USA
Joined: 08-27-2003


Message 119 of 134 (80197)
01-22-2004 10:03 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by TruthDetector
01-20-2004 8:11 PM


quote:
Are you saying that there is no way, in your mind, that God could have made everything you see today?
No, I'm saying that the evidence indicates that if God made everything, he did so using natural means, at least as a general rule.
quote:
Just because it doesn't meet the almighty SFS's standards for being a scientific theory doesn't make it not a possiblity.
Why the sarcasm? There's nothing special about my standards -- creationists make no effort at all to explain a lot of scientific data. You don't have to have very high standards to conclude that a theory that doesn't exist isn't much of a theory. There is no creationist theory of genetics, for example.
quote:
When referring to the observed data, are you also referring to radio-carbon-dating?
Not particularly. Very little of interest to evolution can be dated with radiocarbon dating.
quote:
Is that process, along with all/most of all of the other 'information' you speak of that has been gathered, not accurate or reliable depending of the situation?
I don't know what you're asking here. Radiodating, of all types, has its limitations, but they're pretty well understood, and within those limitations it is quite accurate. I'm mostly talking about genetic data, however, which has little to do with radiodating.
quote:
I would also LOVE to here one of these "ad hoc explainations" that "frequently contradict one another".
The Flood was:
a) a wild, raging chaos that mixed and sorted large amounts of solid material and sloshed it all over the place, and
b) so gentle that separate layers of salt and fresh water were preserved throughout it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by TruthDetector, posted 01-20-2004 8:11 PM TruthDetector has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 121 by JonF, posted 01-23-2004 9:05 AM sfs has not replied
 Message 127 by TruthDetector, posted 02-04-2004 8:07 PM sfs has not replied

  
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