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Author Topic:   Obama
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1417
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008
Member Rating: 7.0


Message 166 of 314 (597223)
12-20-2010 12:47 PM
Reply to: Message 155 by arachnophilia
12-18-2010 4:06 PM


Re: Obama - gets it done on DADT
Like child torture?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by arachnophilia, posted 12-18-2010 4:06 PM arachnophilia has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 167 by crashfrog, posted 12-20-2010 12:49 PM dronestar has replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1497 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 167 of 314 (597224)
12-20-2010 12:49 PM
Reply to: Message 166 by dronestar
12-20-2010 12:47 PM


Re: Obama - gets it done on DADT
When a majority of Americans support torture, you get torture, regardless of how liberal your president is.
The Federal government is fundamentally structured to privilege conservative outcomes, such as torture of children.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by dronestar, posted 12-20-2010 12:47 PM dronestar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 168 by dronestar, posted 12-20-2010 1:04 PM crashfrog has replied
 Message 171 by frako, posted 12-20-2010 2:09 PM crashfrog has not replied
 Message 174 by Theodoric, posted 12-20-2010 2:31 PM crashfrog has replied

dronestar
Member
Posts: 1417
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008
Member Rating: 7.0


Message 168 of 314 (597226)
12-20-2010 1:04 PM
Reply to: Message 167 by crashfrog
12-20-2010 12:49 PM


Re: Obama - gets it done on DADT
When a majority of Americans support torture, you get torture, regardless of how liberal your president is.
Evidence please?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by crashfrog, posted 12-20-2010 12:49 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 172 by crashfrog, posted 12-20-2010 2:15 PM dronestar has replied

dronestar
Member
Posts: 1417
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008
Member Rating: 7.0


Message 169 of 314 (597228)
12-20-2010 1:10 PM
Reply to: Message 165 by crashfrog
12-20-2010 12:44 PM


Re: "Progress"?
Oddly enough Barack Obama is not the President of Israel.
Oddly enough, you skipped over the ACTION that the US BRIBES Israel. You know . . . . the MAIN PART of my argument. (Look up "Quote-mine" some time, won't you please?)
Seemed to skip over this one too:
2. Obama has ordered more drone-attacks in Pakistan and Afghanistan THAN Bush Jr.. This guarantees more death to innocent women and children and guarantees more retaliatory strikes (blowback) against US in the future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by crashfrog, posted 12-20-2010 12:44 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 173 by crashfrog, posted 12-20-2010 2:22 PM dronestar has replied

Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 170 of 314 (597233)
12-20-2010 2:06 PM
Reply to: Message 161 by crashfrog
12-19-2010 12:14 PM


Oh, by the way, crash, DADT hasn't been repealed. What was passed was the backdoor deal of Obama's that requires certification by the President, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and the Secretary of Defense that the change in policy can be enacted without trouble. It then gies to Congress who has 60 days to decide if they want to interfere. And all of this must be done by the end of March 2011.
With a Republican House, how likely do you think Congressional obstruction will be?
Edited by Rrhain, : No reason given.

Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 161 by crashfrog, posted 12-19-2010 12:14 PM crashfrog has not replied

frako
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 171 of 314 (597234)
12-20-2010 2:09 PM
Reply to: Message 167 by crashfrog
12-20-2010 12:49 PM


Re: Obama - gets it done on DADT
When a majority of Americans support torture, you get torture, regardless of how liberal your president is.
The Federal government is fundamentally structured to privilege conservative outcomes, such as torture of children.
When a majority of Americans support torture, you get torture, regardless of how liberal your president is.
The Federal government is fundamentally structured to privilege conservative outcomes, such as torture of children.
Well just goes to show that we do not have basic human rights, because rights are things no one can take from you we have basic human privileges that can be taken from us on a whim.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by crashfrog, posted 12-20-2010 12:49 PM crashfrog has not replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1497 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 172 of 314 (597235)
12-20-2010 2:15 PM
Reply to: Message 168 by dronestar
12-20-2010 1:04 PM


Re: Obama - gets it done on DADT
Evidence please?
Links - it clicks them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 168 by dronestar, posted 12-20-2010 1:04 PM dronestar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 176 by dronestar, posted 12-20-2010 3:03 PM crashfrog has replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1497 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 173 of 314 (597237)
12-20-2010 2:22 PM
Reply to: Message 169 by dronestar
12-20-2010 1:10 PM


Re: "Progress"?
Oddly enough, you skipped over the ACTION that the US BRIBES Israel.
But Obama has not stopped the policy of bribing Israel. Israel continues to receive billions in government aid from the US.
It's merely the case that Israel has discontinued their policy of being committed to certain actions in exchange for bribes. Barack Obama isn't the President of Israel; he can't control their actions.
Obama has ordered more drone-attacks in Pakistan and Afghanistan THAN Bush Jr..
Better drones than actual US servicepeople put at risk. There's no realistic possibility in the United States of drone attacks coming to an end, due to how the federal government is structured to privilege military hegemony.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 169 by dronestar, posted 12-20-2010 1:10 PM dronestar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 178 by dronestar, posted 12-20-2010 3:11 PM crashfrog has replied
 Message 190 by dronestar, posted 12-20-2010 4:37 PM crashfrog has replied
 Message 196 by dronestar, posted 12-21-2010 9:17 AM crashfrog has replied

Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9202
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 174 of 314 (597238)
12-20-2010 2:31 PM
Reply to: Message 167 by crashfrog
12-20-2010 12:49 PM


Re: Obama - gets it done on DADT
When a majority of Americans support torture, you get torture, regardless of how liberal your president is.
Wow. I can not believe you used that as justification.
I guess you feel that the everyone should have gone with the majority and we should have declined give voting rights to blacks. You do realize that there is such a thing as the tyranny of the majority.
Also, it does not matter what the majority wants a liberal president would fight for and maintain the moral and ethical highground on this.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by crashfrog, posted 12-20-2010 12:49 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 175 by crashfrog, posted 12-20-2010 2:37 PM Theodoric has replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1497 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 175 of 314 (597241)
12-20-2010 2:37 PM
Reply to: Message 174 by Theodoric
12-20-2010 2:31 PM


Re: Obama - gets it done on DADT
Wow. I can not believe you used that as justification.
I'm not using it as a justification. I'm explaining how the structure of our government constrains outcomes. One of those outcomes is the expansion of military hegemony and violations of human rights, regardless of the President's ideology, especially when those outcomes are favored by a majority of Americans.
There's simply no provision in the Constitution for the President to pass legislation because he really, really wants to.
Also, it does not matter what the majority wants a liberal president would fight for and maintain the moral and ethical highground on this.
The President is not given the power to do so under our form of government. He's an executive, not a God-King. I'm sorry Big Black Daddy can't give you everything you want for Christmas, but you need to grow up and realize that the obstacle to further progressive achievement isn't Obama's laziness - he's done more for progressives than any other living politician, in fact - it's significant structural obstacles to precisely the kind of results you'd like to see.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 174 by Theodoric, posted 12-20-2010 2:31 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 183 by Theodoric, posted 12-20-2010 3:36 PM crashfrog has replied
 Message 194 by Rrhain, posted 12-21-2010 3:18 AM crashfrog has not replied

dronestar
Member
Posts: 1417
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008
Member Rating: 7.0


Message 176 of 314 (597247)
12-20-2010 3:03 PM
Reply to: Message 172 by crashfrog
12-20-2010 2:15 PM


Re: Obama - gets it done on DADT
Crash: When a majority of Americans support torture, you get torture, regardless of how liberal your president is.
The Federal government is fundamentally structured to privilege conservative outcomes, such as torture of children.
Drone: Evidence please?
Crash: Links - it clicks them.
Sorry, what does this mean? Are there supposed to be links attached to your post? Please provide evidence that the majority of Americans support torture/child torture.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 172 by crashfrog, posted 12-20-2010 2:15 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 177 by crashfrog, posted 12-20-2010 3:08 PM dronestar has replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1497 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 177 of 314 (597251)
12-20-2010 3:08 PM
Reply to: Message 176 by dronestar
12-20-2010 3:03 PM


Re: Obama - gets it done on DADT
Are there supposed to be links attached to your post?
Yes, there's a link in the post. Please click and read it.
Please provide evidence that the majority of Americans support torture/child torture.
I did, when I wrote the post. The evidence is available at the link.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 176 by dronestar, posted 12-20-2010 3:03 PM dronestar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 187 by dronestar, posted 12-20-2010 3:54 PM crashfrog has not replied

dronestar
Member
Posts: 1417
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008
Member Rating: 7.0


Message 178 of 314 (597252)
12-20-2010 3:11 PM
Reply to: Message 173 by crashfrog
12-20-2010 2:22 PM


Re: "Progress"?
Barack Obama isn't the President of Israel; he can't control their actions.
It seems you have misread my post once again. The argument isn't whether or not Obama is the president of Israel.
The argument is: If Obama is a liberal, why does Obama CHOOSE choose to maintain the same actions (reward Israel with billions of $) as Bush Jr. when Israel continues to displace/discriminate/torture/murder Palestinians?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 173 by crashfrog, posted 12-20-2010 2:22 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 179 by crashfrog, posted 12-20-2010 3:17 PM dronestar has replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1497 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 179 of 314 (597253)
12-20-2010 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 178 by dronestar
12-20-2010 3:11 PM


Re: "Progress"?
If Obama is a liberal, why does Obama CHOOSE choose to maintain the same actions (reward Israel with billions of $) as Bush Jr. when Israel continues to displace/discriminate/torture/murder Palestinians?
Congress has the power of the purse under our system of government, not the President. There's no Constitutional power for the President to enact a budget simply because he really, really wants to; also, with no line-item veto he can only approve or veto entire budgets.
The Constitution is available online, Dronester. I think you might find it edifying to actually have read it. Then you would stop ascribing to Big Black Daddy the actions and decisions of other individuals. The buck, in fact, does not stop with the president under our system of government.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 178 by dronestar, posted 12-20-2010 3:11 PM dronestar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 182 by dronestar, posted 12-20-2010 3:33 PM crashfrog has replied

dronestar
Member
Posts: 1417
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008
Member Rating: 7.0


Message 180 of 314 (597254)
12-20-2010 3:24 PM
Reply to: Message 165 by crashfrog
12-20-2010 12:44 PM


Re: "Progress"?
Drone: The Obama administration wanted to open up oil and gas drilling three weeks before the largest offshore oil spill in U.S. history despite grave ecological warnings.
Crash: And before that three weeks he'd been a relentless opponent. His stance on offshore drilling was becoming a stick with which to beat Democrats.
So the stick to beat the Democrats was much, much more important than an environmental catastrophe (that was pre-warned) that has caused BILLIONS in damages and possibly permanently damaged the coastal region? Is that what you are claiming? It seems a "liberal"/pro-environment president wouldn't do that, please explain.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by crashfrog, posted 12-20-2010 12:44 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 181 by crashfrog, posted 12-20-2010 3:28 PM dronestar has replied

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