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Member Posts: 2587 From: massachusetts US Joined: Member Rating: 7.0 |
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Author | Topic: Obama | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
dronestar Member Posts: 1417 From: usa Joined: Member Rating: 7.0 |
Like child torture?
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1497 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
When a majority of Americans support torture, you get torture, regardless of how liberal your president is.
The Federal government is fundamentally structured to privilege conservative outcomes, such as torture of children.
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dronestar Member Posts: 1417 From: usa Joined: Member Rating: 7.0 |
When a majority of Americans support torture, you get torture, regardless of how liberal your president is. Evidence please?
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dronestar Member Posts: 1417 From: usa Joined: Member Rating: 7.0 |
Oddly enough Barack Obama is not the President of Israel. Oddly enough, you skipped over the ACTION that the US BRIBES Israel. You know . . . . the MAIN PART of my argument. (Look up "Quote-mine" some time, won't you please?) Seemed to skip over this one too: 2. Obama has ordered more drone-attacks in Pakistan and Afghanistan THAN Bush Jr.. This guarantees more death to innocent women and children and guarantees more retaliatory strikes (blowback) against US in the future.
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
Oh, by the way, crash, DADT hasn't been repealed. What was passed was the backdoor deal of Obama's that requires certification by the President, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and the Secretary of Defense that the change in policy can be enacted without trouble. It then gies to Congress who has 60 days to decide if they want to interfere. And all of this must be done by the end of March 2011.
With a Republican House, how likely do you think Congressional obstruction will be? Edited by Rrhain, : No reason given. Rrhain Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time. Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.
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frako Member (Idle past 335 days) Posts: 2932 From: slovenija Joined: |
When a majority of Americans support torture, you get torture, regardless of how liberal your president is. The Federal government is fundamentally structured to privilege conservative outcomes, such as torture of children.When a majority of Americans support torture, you get torture, regardless of how liberal your president is. The Federal government is fundamentally structured to privilege conservative outcomes, such as torture of children.
Well just goes to show that we do not have basic human rights, because rights are things no one can take from you we have basic human privileges that can be taken from us on a whim.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1497 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
Evidence please? Links - it clicks them.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1497 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
Oddly enough, you skipped over the ACTION that the US BRIBES Israel. But Obama has not stopped the policy of bribing Israel. Israel continues to receive billions in government aid from the US. It's merely the case that Israel has discontinued their policy of being committed to certain actions in exchange for bribes. Barack Obama isn't the President of Israel; he can't control their actions.
Obama has ordered more drone-attacks in Pakistan and Afghanistan THAN Bush Jr.. Better drones than actual US servicepeople put at risk. There's no realistic possibility in the United States of drone attacks coming to an end, due to how the federal government is structured to privilege military hegemony.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9202 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.4 |
When a majority of Americans support torture, you get torture, regardless of how liberal your president is. Wow. I can not believe you used that as justification. I guess you feel that the everyone should have gone with the majority and we should have declined give voting rights to blacks. You do realize that there is such a thing as the tyranny of the majority. Also, it does not matter what the majority wants a liberal president would fight for and maintain the moral and ethical highground on this. Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1497 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
Wow. I can not believe you used that as justification. I'm not using it as a justification. I'm explaining how the structure of our government constrains outcomes. One of those outcomes is the expansion of military hegemony and violations of human rights, regardless of the President's ideology, especially when those outcomes are favored by a majority of Americans. There's simply no provision in the Constitution for the President to pass legislation because he really, really wants to.
Also, it does not matter what the majority wants a liberal president would fight for and maintain the moral and ethical highground on this. The President is not given the power to do so under our form of government. He's an executive, not a God-King. I'm sorry Big Black Daddy can't give you everything you want for Christmas, but you need to grow up and realize that the obstacle to further progressive achievement isn't Obama's laziness - he's done more for progressives than any other living politician, in fact - it's significant structural obstacles to precisely the kind of results you'd like to see.
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dronestar Member Posts: 1417 From: usa Joined: Member Rating: 7.0 |
Crash: When a majority of Americans support torture, you get torture, regardless of how liberal your president is. The Federal government is fundamentally structured to privilege conservative outcomes, such as torture of children. Drone: Evidence please? Crash: Links - it clicks them. Sorry, what does this mean? Are there supposed to be links attached to your post? Please provide evidence that the majority of Americans support torture/child torture.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1497 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
Are there supposed to be links attached to your post? Yes, there's a link in the post. Please click and read it.
Please provide evidence that the majority of Americans support torture/child torture. I did, when I wrote the post. The evidence is available at the link.
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dronestar Member Posts: 1417 From: usa Joined: Member Rating: 7.0 |
Barack Obama isn't the President of Israel; he can't control their actions. It seems you have misread my post once again. The argument isn't whether or not Obama is the president of Israel. The argument is: If Obama is a liberal, why does Obama CHOOSE choose to maintain the same actions (reward Israel with billions of $) as Bush Jr. when Israel continues to displace/discriminate/torture/murder Palestinians?
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1497 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
If Obama is a liberal, why does Obama CHOOSE choose to maintain the same actions (reward Israel with billions of $) as Bush Jr. when Israel continues to displace/discriminate/torture/murder Palestinians? Congress has the power of the purse under our system of government, not the President. There's no Constitutional power for the President to enact a budget simply because he really, really wants to; also, with no line-item veto he can only approve or veto entire budgets. The Constitution is available online, Dronester. I think you might find it edifying to actually have read it. Then you would stop ascribing to Big Black Daddy the actions and decisions of other individuals. The buck, in fact, does not stop with the president under our system of government.
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dronestar Member Posts: 1417 From: usa Joined: Member Rating: 7.0 |
Drone: The Obama administration wanted to open up oil and gas drilling three weeks before the largest offshore oil spill in U.S. history despite grave ecological warnings. Crash: And before that three weeks he'd been a relentless opponent. His stance on offshore drilling was becoming a stick with which to beat Democrats. So the stick to beat the Democrats was much, much more important than an environmental catastrophe (that was pre-warned) that has caused BILLIONS in damages and possibly permanently damaged the coastal region? Is that what you are claiming? It seems a "liberal"/pro-environment president wouldn't do that, please explain.
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