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Author Topic:   What is Life?
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15950
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 256 of 268 (599176)
01-05-2011 10:47 AM
Reply to: Message 253 by ICdesign
01-05-2011 10:17 AM


Re: The Mutation Problem
You always insult everyone you disagree with. Your like this little spoiled brat ...

Ah, unconscious irony.

---

Now, I have posted and linked to facts, figures, and reasoning. Do you have anything to say in response except to insult me personally?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 253 by ICdesign, posted 01-05-2011 10:17 AM ICdesign has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 257 by ICdesign, posted 01-05-2011 11:16 AM Dr Adequate has responded

  
ICdesign
Member (Idle past 2327 days)
Posts: 360
From: Phoenix Arizona USA
Joined: 03-10-2007


Message 257 of 268 (599184)
01-05-2011 11:16 AM
Reply to: Message 256 by Dr Adequate
01-05-2011 10:47 AM


Re: The Mutation Problem
Now, I have posted and linked to facts, figures, and reasoning. Do you have anything to say?

Yes. I told you I believe the site I posted to be the correct information. I also stated I wanted to investigate the information from your site when I get enough time to research its content. I don't have time for that today but I will get back to you.

You keep claiming you refuted the facts and figures from the site I posted when you did no such thing. If You did I don't see that post so please reference that post for me.

Thank you, got to head off to work,
IC


This message is a reply to:
 Message 256 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-05-2011 10:47 AM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 258 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-05-2011 11:24 AM ICdesign has responded

    
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15950
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 258 of 268 (599186)
01-05-2011 11:24 AM
Reply to: Message 257 by ICdesign
01-05-2011 11:16 AM


Re: The Mutation Problem
Yes. I told you I believe the site I posted to be the correct information.

Let me rephrase that, then. Do you have anything of substance to say?

You keep claiming you refuted the facts and figures from the site ...

This is, of course, not true. I do not "keep claiming" something that I have never ever claimed --- and the honesty of saying that I have is, to put it mildly, questionable.

I skipped over his facts and figures, as I pointed out, and went straight for the gross error of reasoning. Because if the reasoning is crap, which it is, then the facts and figures on which it is based are irrelevant.

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 257 by ICdesign, posted 01-05-2011 11:16 AM ICdesign has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 259 by ICdesign, posted 01-05-2011 11:48 AM Dr Adequate has responded

  
ICdesign
Member (Idle past 2327 days)
Posts: 360
From: Phoenix Arizona USA
Joined: 03-10-2007


Message 259 of 268 (599189)
01-05-2011 11:48 AM
Reply to: Message 258 by Dr Adequate
01-05-2011 11:24 AM


Re: The Mutation Problem
...OK, one last quick response on my way out the door...

This is, of course, not true. I do not "keep claiming" something that I have never ever claimed --- and the honesty of saying that I have is, to put it mildly, questionable.
I skipped over his facts and figures, as I pointed out, and went straight for the gross error of reasoning. Because if the reasoning is crap, which it is, then the facts and figures on which it is based are irrelevant.

Oh, I misunderstood what you meant, sorry. I thought the way you were carrying on that you had offered something more than your opinion that the reasoning was crap. Thanks for clarifying.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 258 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-05-2011 11:24 AM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 260 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-05-2011 11:58 AM ICdesign has not yet responded

    
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15950
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 260 of 268 (599192)
01-05-2011 11:58 AM
Reply to: Message 259 by ICdesign
01-05-2011 11:48 AM


Re: The Mutation Problem
Oh, I misunderstood what you meant, sorry.

I accept your apology.

I thought the way you were carrying on that you had offered something more than your opinion that the reasoning was crap.

And, of course, I did. I explained to you why the reasoning was crap.

What I did not offer was a refutation of the facts and figures on which the reasoning was based --- just of the reasoning itself.

Could you try to be a little more honest?

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 259 by ICdesign, posted 01-05-2011 11:48 AM ICdesign has not yet responded

  
john6zx
Member (Idle past 2350 days)
Posts: 66
Joined: 01-27-2007


Message 261 of 268 (600037)
01-12-2011 12:23 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by 1.61803
09-13-2010 10:43 AM


Re: what is life,,,baby dont hurt me baby dont....
So energy existed before life? Is that what you are saying?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by 1.61803, posted 09-13-2010 10:43 AM 1.61803 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 262 by ringo, posted 01-12-2011 1:34 AM john6zx has responded
 Message 263 by Taq, posted 01-12-2011 12:03 PM john6zx has not yet responded
 Message 264 by frako, posted 01-12-2011 7:22 PM john6zx has not yet responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 13636
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 262 of 268 (600046)
01-12-2011 1:34 AM
Reply to: Message 261 by john6zx
01-12-2011 12:23 AM


Re: what is life,,,baby dont hurt me baby dont....
john6zx writes:

So energy existed before life? Is that what you are saying?


How could it not?


"I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"
This message is a reply to:
 Message 261 by john6zx, posted 01-12-2011 12:23 AM john6zx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 265 by john6zx, posted 01-14-2011 2:15 AM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 7140
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 263 of 268 (600090)
01-12-2011 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 261 by john6zx
01-12-2011 12:23 AM


Re: what is life,,,baby dont hurt me baby dont....
So energy existed before life? Is that what you are saying?

Where it concerns life on Earth, energy did exist before life. Energy has been present for the entire 14 billion years history of this universe. Energy was around in this universe for at least 10 billion years before life appeared on Earth.

Edited by Taq, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 261 by john6zx, posted 01-12-2011 12:23 AM john6zx has not yet responded

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2705
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 264 of 268 (600137)
01-12-2011 7:22 PM
Reply to: Message 261 by john6zx
01-12-2011 12:23 AM


Re: what is life,,,baby dont hurt me baby dont....
well duh, after the bing bang you had superheated matter heat=energy, matter is technically energy e=mc2, so yea energy existed way before life
This message is a reply to:
 Message 261 by john6zx, posted 01-12-2011 12:23 AM john6zx has not yet responded

    
john6zx
Member (Idle past 2350 days)
Posts: 66
Joined: 01-27-2007


Message 265 of 268 (600346)
01-14-2011 2:15 AM
Reply to: Message 262 by ringo
01-12-2011 1:34 AM


Ringo, you think energy came before life.

Lets see. All energy is in the form of a particle or a wave, all energy is motion. Now I am going to have to assume that you know that energy is not alive, that energy can not think, that energy is not a sentient thing. Right?

All right, since you say energy came before life then I will also have to assume that you are not of the thinking that a god or supreme being created this universe. Right?

So that leaves us with the Big Bang theory. Something was created from nothing. This theory leads science to believe that life was created by some supernatural mixture of chemicals and energy. So basically everything in this physical universe is either a particle or wave according to the "logic" of this Big Bang theory.

Alright to make this simple I will use the idea of a tin can to represent a something out of nothing. A tin can is made of energy just like anything else in this universe.

O.K. We start out with nothing. No space, no time, no wave lenghts of energy, no particles. Nothing. Then a tin can appears through some explosion, or action.

Now energy did not exist before the action so it had to be created. You see if there was no life before the BB then the object or energy would have to do the creating, if all there was was nothing and then energy, then energy would have to create itself.

If there was nothing in this universe and then a tin can appeared by whatever means you like, then that tin can had to get the ball rolling, get the whole process started BEFORE it was a tin can.

An object or energy can not decide or put into action creation of itself or anything before it exists. A tin can decides to become a tin can and then becomes a tin can..... NO. An explosion decides to put into action the process that is going to create it? NO WAY.

The explosion creates the very energy that it is made of BEFORE it is made. NO.

Something has have the ability to create, to think of creating, to be able to create. Matter, energy, space and time do not have these qualities. You may not agree that life came before energy, so can you at least explain how something that does not exist can create itself. The BB theory just doesn't logically work. I am not here to promote the idea of any religious god either. I am just looking at what science says about logic, scientific method, the laws of physics, and using common sense to see that energy could not exist BEFORE it created itself.

{Please, no one reply to this pile of incoherence - Adminnemooseus}

Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Killed crappy subtitle.

Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Off-topic banner etc.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 262 by ringo, posted 01-12-2011 1:34 AM ringo has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 266 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-14-2011 3:08 AM john6zx has not yet responded
 Message 267 by john6zx, posted 01-15-2011 2:21 AM john6zx has not yet responded

    
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15950
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 266 of 268 (600353)
01-14-2011 3:08 AM
Reply to: Message 265 by john6zx
01-14-2011 2:15 AM


{Please, no one reply to this pile of incoherence - Adminnemooseus}

OK then.

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 265 by john6zx, posted 01-14-2011 2:15 AM john6zx has not yet responded

  
john6zx
Member (Idle past 2350 days)
Posts: 66
Joined: 01-27-2007


Message 267 of 268 (600534)
01-15-2011 2:21 AM
Reply to: Message 265 by john6zx
01-14-2011 2:15 AM


john6zx said;

Ringo, you think energy came before life.
Lets see. All energy is in the form of a particle or a wave, all energy is motion. Now I am going to have to assume that you know that energy is not alive, that energy can not think, that energy is not a sentient thing. Right?

All right, since you say energy came before life then I will also have to assume that you are not of the thinking that a god or supreme being created this universe. Right?

So that leaves us with the Big Bang theory. Something was created from nothing. This theory leads science to believe that life was created by some supernatural mixture of chemicals and energy. So basically everything in this physical universe is either a particle or wave according to the "logic" of this Big Bang theory.

Alright to make this simple I will use the idea of a tin can to represent a something out of nothing. A tin can is made of energy just like anything else in this universe.

O.K. We start out with nothing. No space, no time, no wave lenghts of energy, no particles. Nothing. Then a tin can appears through some explosion, or action.

Now energy did not exist before the action so it had to be created. You see if there was no life before the BB then the object or energy would have to do the creating, if all there was was nothing and then energy, then energy would have to create itself.

If there was nothing in this universe and then a tin can appeared by whatever means you like, then that tin can had to get the ball rolling, get the whole process started BEFORE it was a tin can.

An object or energy can not decide or put into action creation of itself or anything before it exists. A tin can decides to become a tin can and then becomes a tin can..... NO. An explosion decides to put into action the process that is going to create it? NO WAY.

The explosion creates the very energy that it is made of BEFORE it is made. NO.

Something has have the ability to create, to think of creating, to be able to create. Matter, energy, space and time do not have these qualities. You may not agree that life came before energy, so can you at least explain how something that does not exist can create itself. The BB theory just doesn't logically work. I am not here to promote the idea of any religious god either. I am just looking at what science says about logic, scientific method, the laws of physics, and using common sense to see that energy could not exist BEFORE it created itself.

YOU HAVE BEEN TOLD NOT TO RESPOND TO ME.
AUTHORITY HAS TOLD YOU WHAT TO DO.

Here is what I think about this:

SO THREATNED! What is this? Are you trying to stop all dissent against the established beliefs. This is America, 1st amendment rights. There is nothing I said that needs to be suppressed unless you think it came to close to unraveling your precious established beliefs. What is the harm?

Why cut my communication with no explanation why? This is a dictatorship. Innocent until proven guilty, Right? What happened to free speech? My God this is ridiculous.

No warning. No communication to me saying that I have overstepped the rules. No mention of the rule or rules that I violated. Where is the justice? Tell me why I am being censored! What is this....China!

What harm has been done? What are you afraid of? To actually tell people not to respond to my post with some kind of authoritarian "you know what is best" attitude is sad. Let people make up their own mind and do not tell them what to do.

Don't you have enough respect and confidence in people, especially those that deal in reason, as the ones on this scientific forum to make their own choices?

Are you are going to decide what the participants of this forum are going to do? I make one post and you tell everyone that my statement is off limits, verboten.

Announce what I did was wrong. It is wrong for you to censor me, and it is an action by a coward. You are deciding what others should think. If you don't like what i said fine.

"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"

Voltaire.

"The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing. One cannot help but be in awe when he contemplates the mysteries of eternity, of life, of the marvelous structure of reality. It is enough if one tries merely to comprehend a little of this mystery every day. Never lose a holy curiosity"

Albert Einstein

"The trouble with most people is that they think with their hopes or fears or wishes rather than with their minds."

Will Durant:

"The beginning of wisdom is found in doubting; by doubting we come to the question, and by seeking we may come upon the truth."

Pierre Abelard:

"Authority has every reason to fear the skeptic, for authority can rarely survive in the face of doubt"

"The scientist is not a person who gives the right answers, he is one who asks the right questions"

Claude Levi-Strauss

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts".
Bertrand Russell (1872 - 1970)

Think for yourself and question authority

Every great advance in natural knowledge has involved the absolute rejection of authority.

Thomas Henry Huxley

Let people communicate! Do not prevent mans natural impulse to question his existance and ask questions. Let people speak and be free to decide their own actions.

OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message by continuing in this vein.
AdminPD

Edited by AdminPD, : Warning


This message is a reply to:
 Message 265 by john6zx, posted 01-14-2011 2:15 AM john6zx has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 268 by AdminPD, posted 01-15-2011 6:50 AM john6zx has not yet responded

    
AdminPD
Inactive Administrator


Message 268 of 268 (600550)
01-15-2011 6:50 AM
Reply to: Message 267 by john6zx
01-15-2011 2:21 AM


Off Topic
Your previous post was deemed off topic by an admin.

This post is also deemed off topic. If you have questions or complaints concerning an administrative action, please use the General Discussion Of Moderation Procedures (aka 'The Whine List') thread to voice those concerns not this thread.

Please direct any comments concerning this Administrative msg to the General Discussion Of Moderation Procedures (aka 'The Whine List') thread.

Any response in this thread will receive a 24 hour suspension.

Thank you
AdminPD Purple


This message is a reply to:
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