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Author | Topic: The Ultimate Question - Why is there something rather than nothing? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Black Cat Junior Member (Idle past 4644 days) Posts: 28 From: Canada Joined: |
I can admit it doesn't seem clear what his intentions are. I also affirm that he does not indicate that he intends to quote directly. You on the other hand insist that he claims to be quoting directly. So, for the fourth time I'll ask, where does Dr. Craig claim that he is quoting directly?
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Black Cat Junior Member (Idle past 4644 days) Posts: 28 From: Canada Joined: |
Let me rephrase my question. Where in that sentence does Dr. Craig claim that he is quoting directly?
Edited by Black Cat, : No reason given.
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Panda Member (Idle past 3744 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: |
Black Cat writes:
then you cannot also say
I can admit it doesn't seem clear what his intentions are.Black Cat writes:
You cannot both not know and know what his intentions are. I also affirm that he does not indicate that he intends to quote directly.This is really very simple. Black Cat writes:
For the fourth time, I'll answer:
So, for the fourth time I'll ask, where does Dr. Craig claim that he is quoting directly?Dr. Craig writes:
On pages 157-8 of his book, Dawkins summarizes what he calls "the central argument of my book." It goes as follows:
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Panda Member (Idle past 3744 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: |
To answer your 2nd post:
Black Cat writes:
Sentences are interpreted as a whole. Where in that sentence does Dr. Craig claim that he is quoting directly?If you break them up or remove parts of them (as Dr. Craig did) they lose their intended meaning. So, to answer your question:
Dr. Craig writes: On pages 157-8 of his book, Dawkins summarizes what he calls "the central argument of my book." It goes as follows: Edited by Panda, : No reason given.
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Panda Member (Idle past 3744 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: |
Is your silence regarding the dishonesty described by Dr. A. (in Message 161) due to you not being able to defend it?
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Black Cat Junior Member (Idle past 4644 days) Posts: 28 From: Canada Joined: |
Black Cat writes: Where in that sentence does Dr. Craig claim that he is quoting directly? Panda writes: Sentences are interpreted as a whole.If you break them up or remove parts of them (as Dr. Craig did) they lose their intended meaning. I'm not asking you to break it up or to remove part of it.
Dr. Craig writes: On pages 157-8 of his book, Dawkins summarizes what he calls "the central argument of my book." It goes as follows: Again I'll ask, where in the above sentence does Dr. Craig claim that he is quoting directly?
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 315 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
Again I'll ask, where in the above sentence does Dr. Craig claim that he is quoting directly? It's very clearly implied by what he says about it. He treats it as though it was Dawkins' summary, not his, as I have shown. You could in principle put this to an empirical test. You could show the article to someone and ask them some comprehension-test style questions. Include the question: "How did Dawkins summarize his argument?" If they answer: "I have absolutely no idea", then W.L.C. did not deceive them. How do you think this would turn out?
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Panda Member (Idle past 3744 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: |
Black Cat writes:
Oh - ok. I'm not asking you to break it up or to remove part of it. I appear to have mis-understood your request. Thanks for clarifying. Black Cat writes:
Here:
Again I'll ask, where in the above sentence does Dr. Craig claim that he is quoting directly?Dr. Craig writes:
On pages 157-8 of his book, Dawkins summarizes what he calls "the central argument of my book." It goes as follows:
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Straggler Member (Idle past 96 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
BC writes: Where in that sentence does Dr. Craig claim that he is quoting directly? He claims to be summarising correctly. But his summary is a straw man. That is the problem.
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bluegenes Member (Idle past 2508 days) Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined: |
PaulK writes: Then you cannot consider reality to be a thing. "Reality" would be abstract, akin to " truth". I don't see how the first sentence follows from what I said. But anyway, reality and truth are things. Circumstances are things; a state of affairs is a thing. I understand what you're saying when you point out that people on the thread are falling into the trap of describing nothing as something, and also what you mean when you say that nothing itself doesn't have to exist (Tubby's point, which was well attempted). The trouble is that he then went on to describe it as something. The state of reality in which everything is absent. Surely the absence of everything requires the absence of all possible realities. Nothing, therefore, seems impossible because it cannot be a possibility. The idea that nothing (rather than something) could have been an alternative reality doesn't work. The absence of everything can't be anything. It may be that the reason we always end up describing nothing as something is because we're in a something reality and that's all our brains and language can do. But it could also be because it's nonsensical concept. I saw one dictionary definition of nothing that read: "Something that doesn't exist". Talk about getting something out of nothing.
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Straggler Member (Idle past 96 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
So - The question boils down to:
Why does any form of reality exist rather than absolutely nothing at all? Is that what you are saying?
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bluegenes Member (Idle past 2508 days) Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined: |
Straggler writes: So - The question boils down to: Why does any form of reality exist rather than absolutely nothing at all? Is that what you are saying? There's a distinct possibility that I'm not really saying anything at all, because that problem is inherent on a thread on which we're literally trying to talk about nothing. But instead of:
"Why does any form of reality exist rather than absolutely nothing at all? Maybe I'm asking:
How can absolutely nothing ever be an alternative reality to this "something reality" when an any alternative reality is itself something, not nothing.
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Black Cat Junior Member (Idle past 4644 days) Posts: 28 From: Canada Joined: |
Panda insists that he actually did claim to be quoting directly. That's the issue I'm addressing with him.
Edited by Black Cat, : No reason given. Edited by Black Cat, : No reason given.
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Straggler Member (Idle past 96 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
Bluegenes writes: Maybe I'm asking: How can absolutely nothing ever be an alternative reality to this "something reality" when an any alternative reality is itself something, not nothing. Well I am glad we cleared that up Is absolute nothingness an "alternative reality"....? I would have thought absolute nothingness would be no reality at all?
bluegenes writes: There's a distinct possibility that I'm not really saying anything at all, because that problem is inherent on a thread on which we're literally trying to talk about nothing. Indeed. And now we are possibly disagreeing about nothing too. This topic is a complete headfuck.
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Black Cat Junior Member (Idle past 4644 days) Posts: 28 From: Canada Joined: |
You appear to have mis-understood my request again.
Dr. Craig writes: On pages 157-8 of his book, Dawkins summarizes what he calls "the central argument of my book." It goes as follows: Where in this sentence does Dr. Craig claim to be quoting directly? Remember quoting the whole sentence is not an answer to my question.
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