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Author Topic:   How can we regulate guns ... ?
Jon
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 832 of 955 (688311)
01-21-2013 7:45 PM
Reply to: Message 826 by xongsmith
01-21-2013 6:41 PM


Re: Problem Solving at its Best -- proposal #1: FOIDs
You don't need a database to perform a background check.
Very hard to believe.
What I mean is that you don't need a separate database to perform a background check. You don't need the FBI or any other institution to keep track of who has been run for eligibility to possess a firearm.
How the hell do they do the check? Just look at you? You might have been in prison in some far away state for a felony. You might have escaped from some mental institution. Maybe they make a few phone calls? No - this is where you need a national database that is secure and protects privacy.
Ever run a background check before?
Maybe in Minnesota they recognize you if the place is small enough.
LOL. We aren't all sticks and mud over here you know.
... He's using a database. ... again using their database. ... there's a database in use.
Of course the criminal stuff is part of a government database; anyone who does a background check accesses the court records when searching for convictions, arrests, etc. This happens on federal, state, and local levels.
But these are records already kept and easily accessed. There is no reason to have the FBI keep a separate database.
Jon

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 826 by xongsmith, posted 01-21-2013 6:41 PM xongsmith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 837 by ICANT, posted 01-21-2013 8:24 PM Jon has replied
 Message 846 by xongsmith, posted 01-21-2013 9:48 PM Jon has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 855 of 955 (688349)
01-21-2013 11:19 PM
Reply to: Message 837 by ICANT
01-21-2013 8:24 PM


Re: Problem Solving at its Best -- proposal #1: FOIDs
Whatever the case may be, there is simply no reason for the FBI to maintain a database of gun-owners.
What would the purpose serve?
Would it be worth the extra costs?
Since the current system would adequately accomplish the things that RAZD and I have agreed are worth-while, I see no reason to add extra and unnecessary costs that have unclear benefits, and possible negative side-effectse.g., the scenario, however unlikely, you propose.
Jon

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 837 by ICANT, posted 01-21-2013 8:24 PM ICANT has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 856 of 955 (688350)
01-21-2013 11:21 PM
Reply to: Message 846 by xongsmith
01-21-2013 9:48 PM


Re: Problem Solving at its Best -- proposal #1: FOIDs
Wouldn't it be in their interest to have a background check anywhere in the US take no more than the time it takes to use a credit card?
It's unnecessary given the proposals on the table.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 846 by xongsmith, posted 01-21-2013 9:48 PM xongsmith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 857 by xongsmith, posted 01-22-2013 12:43 PM Jon has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 861 of 955 (688429)
01-22-2013 1:44 PM
Reply to: Message 857 by xongsmith
01-22-2013 12:43 PM


Re: Problem Solving at its Best -- proposal #1: FOIDs
You will have to explain it in much more detail. What could be simpler than a plastic card with a PIN? We want to MINIMIZE the cost, don't we?
I don't understand what purpose this would serve.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 857 by xongsmith, posted 01-22-2013 12:43 PM xongsmith has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 872 of 955 (688485)
01-22-2013 8:16 PM
Reply to: Message 871 by Taq
01-22-2013 7:51 PM


Re: Problem Solving at its Best -- proposal #1: FOIDs
You are forgetting about the gun show loophole where there are no background checks or tracking. A criminal can literally walk into a gun show with a pocket full of cash and walk out with an AR15 and no one would be the wiser.
But how serious of a problem is this? What percentage of guns used in crimes are actually obtained at gun shows?
And what percentage of criminals who obtained their guns at a gun show had a background that would have disqualified them?
Jon

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 871 by Taq, posted 01-22-2013 7:51 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 873 by Taq, posted 01-22-2013 8:23 PM Jon has replied
 Message 879 by ICANT, posted 01-23-2013 12:43 PM Jon has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 874 of 955 (688488)
01-22-2013 8:25 PM
Reply to: Message 864 by RAZD
01-22-2013 2:52 PM


Re: Problem Solving at its Best -- proposal #2: Gun Registration
A federal regulation that all guns must be registered each state with:
  1. reference to owner's FOID card
  2. non-registered guns may be confiscated if used in a crime
  3. anyone carrying a non-registered may face time in prison and criminal record
  4. straw purchases banned
  5. document of training and competency for gun being purchased
  6. fees to cover costs
You are jumping ahead; we haven't even covered the first set of policies in sufficient detail.
Jon

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 864 by RAZD, posted 01-22-2013 2:52 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 875 of 955 (688489)
01-22-2013 8:28 PM
Reply to: Message 873 by Taq
01-22-2013 8:23 PM


Re: Problem Solving at its Best -- proposal #1: FOIDs
But how serious of a problem is this? What percentage of guns used in crimes are actually obtained at gun shows?
And what percentage of criminals who obtained their guns at a gun show had a background that would have disqualified them?
I would be as interested in those numbers as you are.
In other words: you don't know what they are.
It would make a lot more sense to tie a serial number for a gun to the person who buys it, and if that gun is used in a crime then the person that is registered to that gun can be held accountable for that crime.
Why? What would this accomplish?

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 873 by Taq, posted 01-22-2013 8:23 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 883 by Taq, posted 01-23-2013 1:42 PM Jon has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 890 of 955 (688573)
01-23-2013 5:08 PM
Reply to: Message 883 by Taq
01-23-2013 1:42 PM


Re: Problem Solving at its Best -- proposal #1: FOIDs
So you have no answer to the question of how many guns used in crimes come from gun shows; and your solution of figuring out who owns what gun does nothing to actually stem gun violenceit just attempts to pass off/share culpability.
Don't we want gun-control policies to at least have some sort of meaningful impact?
You close the 'gun-show loophole'; so what? What does it accomplish?
You figure out who owned the gun used to kill the young gang-banger; so what? What does it matter?
Where is the real difference that your policies are supposed to be making?

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 883 by Taq, posted 01-23-2013 1:42 PM Taq has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 897 by RAZD, posted 01-23-2013 10:01 PM Jon has not replied

  
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