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Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
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Author | Topic: How can we regulate guns ... ? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Panda Member (Idle past 3743 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: |
ramoss writes:
Also, increasing the number of gun laws will increase the number of gun crimes. One little item that the wjs did not report is that crime stats using 'imitation guns' and bb guns are included in that. Care to break those out?e.g. If you made frisbees illegal, the number of frizbee crimes would increase dramatically. quote:...to 2. "There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane
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Panda Member (Idle past 3743 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined:
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jar writes:
Thank you for your support for gun legislation. In the US machine guns are already regulated and have not been used in any of the recent mass shootings."There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane
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Panda Member (Idle past 3743 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: |
jar writes:
Do you oppose an increase in gun legislation? I have never said that I oppose all gun regulation legislation.Do you support a decrease in gun legislation? jar writes:
7% of premature deaths in the US are caused by guns. I have said that I do not consider guns to be a problem in the US.30,000 deaths and 75,000 injuries per year caused by guns - over one hundred thousand people hurt by guns each year. But if you do not consider guns to be a problem, then so be it."There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane
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Panda Member (Idle past 3743 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: |
Why reply if you have nothing to say?
"There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane
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Panda Member (Idle past 3743 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: |
jar writes:
You should have said it, then. I did have something to say."There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane
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Panda Member (Idle past 3743 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: |
jar writes:
No you didn't. I did"There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane
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Panda Member (Idle past 3743 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: |
Coyote writes:
If you read the original article, it is not quite how Faux News portray it. A real sweetie, eh? But that should not be a surprise to anyone."There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane
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Panda Member (Idle past 3743 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: |
Crashfrog writes:
Let's compare guns to knives then: "Efficiency" implies a ratio of some kind; you know, the way "gas efficiency" is about distance traveled per volume of gasoline consumed. I'm just wondering what the terms of your ratio are.Gunshot wounds result in a higher mortality rate than knife wounds. Gunshot wounds can be made at a faster rate than knife wounds. Gunshot wounds can be made at a larger range of distances than knife wounds. Therefore guns are more efficient at killing people than knives. Do you know of a weapon more efficient than guns?(Obviously weapons like nuclear bombs are more efficient than guns, but I don't see anyone in this thread advocating their use.) Edited by Panda, : No reason given."There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane
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Panda Member (Idle past 3743 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined:
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Crashfrog writes:
Are guns unable to be reloaded?
I don't follow the "therefore." Guns can only be fired a limited number of times before becoming completely ineffective; Crashfrog writes:
Sure - here are the characteristics and their ratios: Again, the critical word for me is "efficiency." I'm specifically looking for the ratio of one characteristic or measure to another that would allow me to distinguish two firearms on the basis of their "efficiency."Gunshot wounds result in a higher mortality rate than knife wounds. Gunshot wounds can be made at a faster rate than knife wounds. Gunshot wounds can be made at a larger range of distances than knife wounds. {abe} We are comparing guns to knives, so I am taking your request for me to "distinguish two firearms" as a typo. Crashfrog writes: How would I know? I still don't understand what you mean by "efficiency." Maybe a definition would help:
quote: Try this:Efficiency - Wikipedia quote:The capability of killing people is greater with guns than knives. Guns are more efficient than knives at killing people. Edited by Panda, : No reason given. Edited by Panda, : No reason given."There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane
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Panda Member (Idle past 3743 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: |
Crazyfrog writes:
No. Panda writes:
Do you have to reload a knife? Crazyfrog writes:
Are guns unable to be reloaded? Guns can only be fired a limited number of times before becoming completely ineffectiveAre guns unable to be reloaded? Crazyfrog writes:
Yes they are. Those aren't ratios.One is greater than the other. Crazyfrog writes:
Well....that is what the discussion was about. Why are we comparing guns to knives? Straggler listed different weapons:
"Well if I wanted to walk into a school and massacre a large number of people and I had the following choice of weapons which of the following would I be best served arming myself with in order to achieve my stated aim" You asked for clarification on how those weapons are judged more (or less) efficient: "I asked you to define your term "kill efficiency." ... I'm just wondering what the terms of your ratio are." I selected 2 weapons to compare and listed how their efficiency was judged: "Let's compare guns to knives then" And you addressed that comparison: "Guns can only be fired a limited number of times before becoming completely ineffective; a knife can do harm indefinitely." I am unsure how you got lost in such a short number of messages.
Crazyfrog writes:
Ok...The capability of killing people per a minimum amount of unnecessary effort is greater with guns than knives.
Efficiency isn't defined as "capability." It's defined as "capability per a minimum amount of "expense, waste, or unnecessary effort. Crazyfrog writes:
What he said was synonymous to "more dangerous than a knife". was "more dangerous than a knife" what Straggler meant? If so, why didn't he just say so? Edited by Panda, : No reason given. Edited by Panda, : No reason given."There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane
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Panda Member (Idle past 3743 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: |
CrazyFrog writes:
Yes it is: That's not what "ratio" means.Ratio - definition of ratio by The Free Dictionary quote: Crazyfrog writes:
And that is you ducking out of a losing position.
Look, if someone would like to make an earnest effort to address an earnest question, I promise to give it due consideration. But giving Panda any further consideration at this point really would mean I was crazy. Crazyfrog writes:
That is ok by me. A request for moderator attention will be forthcoming. Edited by Panda, : No reason given. Edited by Panda, : No reason given."There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane
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Panda Member (Idle past 3743 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined:
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quote:Does everyone here agree that the gun show loop hole should be 'closed'? And should that 'closure' extend to all private sales of guns? (This has been done is several states, but for it to be effective it would need to be done nationally.) Perhaps a system could be set up where a prospective gun purchaser could request a 'licence' (from the government) showing that they have passed a background check?(This would be like the NICS but the 'burden of proof' is shifted from the vendor to the purchaser.) This would remove the '3 day wait' which the current system requires (which makes buying a gun at a gun show impractical. Continuing on from the ATF analysis:quote:Should straw purchasing guns also be made illegal? (Again, this has already been done is several states.) I see nothing in my suggestions that prevents the legal ownership of guns by legally permitted citizens - but maybe I have missed something."There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane
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Panda Member (Idle past 3743 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: |
NN writes:
But what is their reasoning? I highly doubt there is universal agreement on these things. Plenty of people think that the loop hole is the way things ought to be for all gun sales. The only reasons I could find on the web were:a) It is traditional - which is a fallacious argument. b) It interferes with business - which is why I suggested allowing people to apply for their own background check. "There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane
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Panda Member (Idle past 3743 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined:
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NN writes:
So, if they had a licence (which entailed a background check) to purchase guns then their requirements would be met? Their reasoning is that they want their guns on demand and they don't want to be denied. They could just wander to any gun seller, show their licence, and buy a gun. As RAZD pointed out: "You need a valid drivers license to rent a vehicle" - but people have no trouble renting cars on demand."There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane
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Panda Member (Idle past 3743 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: |
AZPaul writes:
I am not understanding how putting the responsibility of performing a background check on the buyer is a breach of their constitutional rights. The problem is that the government, at whatever level, cannot require a license for a citizen to practice their free speech rights, their religious rights or their due process rights. The Constitution, as interpreted by the one body in our system with the sole right to do so, makes guns an individual right. No license required.I am not even suggesting (as RAZD is above) that training is required to get this certificate ( - although it does sound like a good idea). Currently, gun sellers are required to 'background check' gun buyers before they sell the guns (with the exception of gun shows and private sales) - but this doesn't appear to be in breach of any constitutional rights. And certain members of society (e.g. criminals/the mentally ill) are not permitted to own guns - and that is not considered a breach of their constitution rights either. Or are you saying that the reason that the government can insist on background checks in certain instances is because there are alternative options which don't require background checks?Then is there any point to a background check if all criminals have to do is go to a gun show to circumvent the system? Edited by Panda, : No reason given."There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane
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